Melkor

If you were Manwe, how would you have punished Melkor?

I forget which of the Valar they were.

I´d punished forcing him to sing church songs all day. That could made him mad...

Hmm, I'd chain him up and put the Silmaril's just out of reach so he couldn't possess them.

But if he could still see them? Maybe I'd feed him to Ungoliant. Or bind him in the body of a rock in a playground the Shire so he would have to watch the hobbit children having fun all day and never be able to play with them. He would just sit there as a rock and get kicked and rained on and picnicked upon. --kind of like Sylvester.

Elanor, you're a genious of torture! Something I'd never expect from you.

>>> If you were Manwe, how would you have punished Melkor?
---Ben <<<

Depends which time you have in mind. Three ages for the first offence is not long enough. Better make it...nine, at least.

And for the second, make him rebuild all that he had destroyed, so far as possible.

I don't think it's a good idea to have him rebuild the things he destroyed. In BOLT when he made the pillars for the two lamps he made them out of ice, and when they melted the lamps went crashing down. Don't trust Melkor with building things!

As Melkor and Manwe are brother in Eru's mind
and considering that Manwe do not know evil
(melkor invention)

I think he made the very best decision

Maybe, if the punishment he received is the given here, it would've been wiser for a more closely-monitored sort of probation after his release?

He should never be released. When he was imprisoned once, all of the different kingdoms propsered, and there was great bliss throughout the land. But then, when he eventually was released after a long times imprisonment, he ended up destroying a large portion of what was built, and turning Beleriand into a war ravaged country full of tragedy. If he was released, he would have eventually found a way to get out from the gaze of his guards, and if he did that even for a moment, it could bring disaster upon everybody.

I think the punishment he was given was pretty good. Lock him up in a place high above the land where he can do no more mischief.

I like Elanor's ideas a lot too though. Perhaps he should go through that, and then be locked up.

He should have him watch an endless loop of the movie "Seven Years in Tibet"...I watched it and it felt like it was filmed in real time.

>>I don't think it's a good idea to have him rebuild the things he destroyed. In BOLT when he made the pillars for the two lamps he made them out of ice, and when they melted the lamps went crashing down. Don't trust Melkor with building things!


What, MELKOR built the pillars for the lamps? Was he being a "good boy" at the time?

Sorry, I only have Silmarillion and LOTR, the other sources are beyond me.

It's been a while since I read BOLT, but Melkor may well have made the lamps in an early version of the legendarium. But Tolkien changed his stories quite a few times along the way. The stories in BOLT are merely the beginnings of the evolution which led to Silm., and even then the legends kept evolving.

I think he still built the pillars in the Silm. IIRC, Aule built the Lamps far out at sea, and Melkor built the pillars for them. Maybe I'm wrong...

The original version of the lamps has Melko teaching Aule how to build the lamps out of a strange, clear, beautiful substance. It was treachery though,as after the Valar did all the hard work in building it, the Lamps melted. The substance was ice.

I think the Valar did a very good job in punishing Morgoth. Marching down to the dungeons of Angband, beating his crown into a collar, chaining his hands, chopping off his feet and shuving him through the Doors of Night was justice.

didn't they only chop off one foot... Fingolfin got the other one and i from what the books tell me they can rebuild their bodies but can't fix them injuries from the past stay on them {or was that only meant for maia's} well i think it was a good idea that they imprisoned him... pity they didn't get sauron too <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

Fingolfin wounded Morgoth, but didn't cut off anything. The Valar chopped off both feet, chained him up then threw himm off the world after the War of Wrath.

How would I punish Morgoth? I'd turn him into a maid...

Ooch, big mistake. Unless you were just desperate for a food fight.

If you look in the chapter of the Darkening of Valinor you will see that Melkor put some of his power in Ungoliante. He continued to do this, with Angband, with the Dragons and other fell creatures, with the earth itself. Eventually Arda was Morgoth's Ring, and destroying him would destroy the world. But also this meant that Morgoth was bound to the world and became of it, even as Elves. He lossed his ability to change shape because of this, and so chopping off his feet took away his ability to walk and escape the Valar.