The Valar

We all know that the Elves die not until the world dies. Men go beyond. What about the Valar? Do they die when the world dies?

According to the higly disputed Second Prophesy of Mandos, in the end, the Valar will tire. Then the end will come: Morgoth will re-enter Arda, he will be beaten, and Eru will make all things anew.

Valar can't die. But eventually they will weary of their guard over the world. That's when Melkor will return. But they won't die. They'll still be needed for the next Music. Melkor will, though. At the hands(and blades)of Tulkas, Eonwe and a reincarnated Turin.

Is this then, Arda Remade that Finrod spoke to Andreth about? Alot of it was speculation on his part, but I wonder how accurate was he?

Admiral, that's entirely untrue. That's the old mythology, where Turin becomes a Vala. In the later version Turin does return for the Last Battle - the Last Battle of the Wars of Beleriand, in which he slays Ancalagon, obviously contradicting the earlier texts where Earendil does him in.

[Lalaith]

Thought the Valar would go back to Eru at the end of all days and create a new world.

[Arien the Maia]

Okay here's a question...the elves die not untill the world dies...is this because they naturally have a hroa and the valar are naturally don't? That would make since seeing as how the elvish fea finds that existing without the hroa as revolting...I got that from Morgoth's ring....I don't think that Eru would just let the elves not exist after Morgoth is destroyed...I don't know I am confused any thoughts out there?

[Artanis]

I think so too, Lalaith. When Eru offered the Valar to enter into the world, they also knew that if they chose to do so they would be bound to the circles of the world until the world ended.

According to Myths Transformed, the Valar will eventually become weary of their task of guarding the world. They would indeed envy Men, who by the gift of Eru were free to leave the world after death.

Edit. Old thread revived. Go Lalaith!

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Artanis
Old thread revived. Go Lalaith!

My God, Lalaith is the first one to post anything in this thread since 2001!

A question, if the Valar can't die, can they still be killed/murdered/assassinated? The elves are immortal, but they can still be killed, while men die whatever they do.

[Nacko]

What about Tom Bombadil? I know it tells that he was at the beggining, and when fell the world would end, does that have anything to do with it?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Nacko
What about Tom Bombadil? I know it tells that he was at the beggining, and when fell the world would end, does that have anything to do with it?

I think that Tom is a Maia and therefore subject to the same fate as any of the Ainur be it Vala or Maia.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Jonathan
A question, if the Valar can't die, can they still be killed/murdered/assassinated? The elves are immortal, but they can still be killed, while men die whatever they do.

Their bodies can be destroyed, but that's not equal to death since the Valar in origin are purely spiritual beings. I think though, that some of them may be more attached to their physical shape than others, and to them a destruction of the body would be more harmful than to the others.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Artanis
Their bodies can be destroyed, but that's not equal to death since the Valar in origin are purely spiritual beings. I think though, that some of them may be more attached to their physical shape than others, and to them a destruction of the body would be more harmful than to the others.

Wasn't that what kind of happened to Melkor? He used his body so much that eventually he could never have any other shape....

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
I think that Tom is a Maia and therefore subject to the same fate as any of the Ainur be it Vala or Maia.

hmm well do we really want to get into a What Is Tom Bombadil discussion here?

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
hmm well do we really want to get into a What Is Tom Bombadil discussion here?

I was merely replying to a statement that Nacko posted earlier

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
I was merely replying to a statement that Nacko posted earlier

Its ok Im joking. I just know when Tom Bombadil comes up people get fiesty. And somehow I usually end up in a straight jacket with terms like "lunatic!", "what are you talking about!" and "thats rediculous!" flying in my direction. So quick before the moderator notices! *looking around sheepishly for Sister GH*

[Sister Golden Hair]

So quick before the moderator notices! *looking around sheepishly for Sister GH*

I'm watching Rex, I'm watching.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Its ok Im joking. I just know when Tom Bombadil comes up people get fiesty. And somehow I usually end up in a straight jacket with terms like "lunatic!", "what are you talking about!" and "thats rediculous!" flying in my direction. So quick before the moderator notices! *looking around sheepishly for Sister GH*

lol I know what you mean!

[Arien the Maia]

Okay, here's something that I think is interesing about Aule....2 of his Maiar rebelled...one (Sauron) became a servant of Melkor and the other(Saruman) a servant of Sauron...Aule also fell into folly when he became "impatient" and devised the Dwarves...although he repented...any thoughts on this?

[Lalaith]

Edit. Old thread revived. Go Lalaith!

Actually I noticed that the last post was from 2001 when I already had posted the message. hahaha

Their bodies can be destroyed, but that's not equal to death since the Valar in origin are purely spiritual beings. I think though, that some of them may be more attached to their physical shape than others, and to them a destruction of the body would be more harmful than to the others.

Is that the reason why they did not kill Melkor. Or was that just an ethic point?

Okay, here's something that I think is interesing about Aule....2 of his Maiar rebelled...one (Sauron) became a servant of Melkor and the other(Saruman) a servant of Sauron...Aule also fell into folly when he became "impatient" and devised the Dwarves...although he repented...any thoughts on this?

Maybe Aule was more tempted with force than the others but not as much as Melkor and in some way he had his temptation under controll.