The Ring Revealed at Osgiliath!

[Turgon]

Did anyone notice how PJ screwed up the story by revealing the ring at Osgiliath?

I must admit I didn’t notice it either and must give credit where do: Trycelle @ Ringzone.net

Trycelle@Ringzone.net
Does this seem a slight oversight on the part of PJ? Despite the many deviations from the book that appear in movie this seems the most egregious. At the Council of Elrond three choices were offered for consideration.
1. The Ring should be hidden from Sauron.
2. The Ring should be destroyed.
3. The Ring should be used to fight Sauron.

The last was put forth by Boromir and rejected by the Council. The first would only postpone the day until the Ring would find its Master again. Finally, the second, as the book states, "Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning."

And thus, the charge is laid upon Frodo by Elrond to neither speak of this thing to any not of the Council or Fellowship nor to deliver it to any hand of the Enemy. The last sight any of the Enemy has of the Ring is at Weathertop and from there Frodo is chased to Rivendell. From the book after the fall of Isengard, Pippin looks into the palantir and in the coming days, Aragorn will also challenge Sauron for control.
All of this draws the thought and will of Sauron away from his borders and allow Frodo and Sam their slim chance to make their way to Mt. Doom. Now, that appears for naught, Sauron knows exactly where the Ring is and who holds it. What will it matter now if Pippin looks, or Aragorn challenges via the palantir. He won't consider Pippin the bearer of the Ring and Aragorn is merely a pretender without the Ring, and thus Sauron has nothing to fear of them. Any stroke of Sauron will fall swift and hard at Osgiliath and it is unlikely any could escape it. At the very least, his eyes will be close about his borders and his minions will be on their toes.
This just seems to go beyond explanation. If you have one, PJ, we'd sure like to hear it.

So what do all you think of this?

[LuthienTinuviel]

im not really sure what that article was hitting at.

is it something like if frodo reveals the ring in ithilien that sauron's eye will imediatly find it?

i don't think that this is the case, as he DOES have other things to worry about, being dark lord and all, than to turn every ounce of his attention to something being flashed about. remember, Sauron doesn't consider the fact that someone will try to destroy the ring until frodo claims it at orodriun (sp?) so sauron will be seeking father and farther out from mordor, and not too much on the lookout for two tiny


argh my sister had to get online, and now ive lost my thought train. so there are my quite incomplete thoughts on the matter.

[azalea]

I agree. I think the whole theme of his eye being focused elsewhere must be abandoned, because by showing that Nazgul the ring, Frodo shows Sauron where it is, so PJ must deal w/ it differently in RotK.

[Turgon]

Exactly Azalea! I can’t wait to see what PJ does with this, if he does anything. The ring has been revealed and as everyone knows Sauron is desperately searching for it because when he puts it on he will return to his original strength (at the time of the Last Alliance). I mean there is a very large army stationed just up the road where Sam and Frodo are headed, wouldn’t they be on the look out and ambush them. Sauron would cease and desist and all battle fronts just to get the ring because the ring is victory!

I hope PJ didn’t forget the main purpose of these books, the ring! Because from watching the Two Towers I kind of got that feeling. The ring seemed to be playing second fiddle to a battle that wasn’t supposed to be so grand.

[olsonm]

Why would Sauron know Frodo is heading for Mordor? All he knows is that he was spotted in Osgilliath: in the company of Gondorians.

[azalea]

Yeah, that makes sense. But PJ will still have to deal with it differently, because Sauron's supposed to see Pippin in the Palantir, so his eye would be fixed on him, and it wouldn't make sense that "the halfling" would be in Osgiliath one day, then racing toward Gondor with Gandalf the next from the other direction! (Or at least in Isengard) I don't know, it's just something that occured to me, too. It'll probably just be glossed over.

[olsonm]

I agree azalea, I just don't think PJ has to worry about Sauron knowing Frodo is heading to Mordor is all.

[Ben]

Why didn't the Nazgul just chase after him? This whole bit strains belief.

[Wayfarer]

The winged creature could have just plucked him off the wall and CARRIED him back to Sauron.

[olsonm]

He didn't need to: Frodo was giving him the Ring. He trusted to his power of fear to keep the others from interfering. But Sam's devotion to Frodo was greater than that fear.

[Wayfarer]

It wasn't sam that shot that arrow, was it?

[Lefty Scaevola]

When the Nazgul see the ring, it is on its way to Gondor, which is Where Sauron is already predisposed to think it will go. This will only reinforce his preoccupation with Gondor.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by azalea
Yeah, that makes sense. But PJ will still have to deal with it differently, because Sauron's supposed to see Pippin in the Palantir, so his eye would be fixed on him, and it wouldn't make sense that "the halfling" would be in Osgiliath one day, then racing toward Gondor with Gandalf the next from the other direction! (Or at least in Isengard) .

Actually I think this is a deliberate replace of one for the other. The strategic significance of the scene with Pippen and the Palantir would be difficult to show without some voice over or strained coversation. Whereas seeing the ring on its way to gondor will obviously trigger a high priority reaction from Sauron, and the connection is easier to make.

[Kalimac]

>>Did anyone notice how PJ screwed up the story by revealing the ring at Osgiliath<<

No, I don't think the story is screwed up, I think the story has been changed. PJ has already stated numerous times that The Two Towers strays the most from the book . . so, it is not fair to try and use the book to explain the actions of the film. Put the book aside, and all you know about it because this movie is going to be different.

Now ask yourself why Frodo is in Osgiliath . . why would PJ (not Tolkien) make the decision to place Frodo so close to Minas Tirith . . why would the Ring be revealed? One of the reasons this is not making sense to you is that we have not yet seen the third movie. The answers to your questions about why Osgiliath and why the Ring being revealed . . can't be answered by looking at the book . . but they should be answered in the third film . . which is an entire year away. As Treebeard would say, "Don't be hasty." Your doubts and questions will be answered about Osgiliath, Sauron, the palantir, Saruman, and even ole Faramir . . will be answered. In the mean time, we can speculate why PJ decided to make this change . . and base those speculation on what we may see by the time Return of the King arrives. Cheers!

[northsuperior]

i agree. there are alot of clues given to the audience of how Sauron is going to move in the next movie.
PJ is making it ABSOLUTLEY OBVIOUS.
You have the map scene, ....it lays it all out for the viewer.
where saruon and saruman are as the threats , and who they are attacking and where Sam and Frodo are.
it even explains where Osilgilath is , in realtion to the whole thing.
AND the Fact that it is mentioned by Galadriel that Sauron knows the ring is near, and that men will be tempted by it .
ITS A TOTAL SETUP.
after the nazgul comes the audinence has to clue in that Sauron knows wher the ring bearer IS.
So when we see the ROTK the race will be on to get to Minas Tirith and take attnetion of the ring bearer.
BUT i still did not like the Faramir Osigilath stuff.

[Tar-Elendil]

PJ will do anything for a buck.. this time it included screwing over an entire literary masterpiece. was it just me or did it seem like osgiliath was recently inhabited? read the description of it in lotr.. nothing like it in the movie.. i think faramir aiding frodo the way he did in the book was crucial to the message of the story. PJ totally refashioned the character. i have no clue why he would do that. maybe because folks wanted to see more what happens with frodo and in the book most of the time hes traveling? even so.. they shouldnt have gone about it that way. ive seen interviews with PJ before. he comes off as a lotr fan for life but, in actuality, he is not.

[BeardofPants]

I'm with Lefty on this; I'm sure that PJ is using this as a feint, so that Sauron will look towards Gondor. There is no reason for Sauron to think that the hobbits are going to Mordor.

[Arathorn]

I agree with 4 of the last 5 posters regarding Sauron's PoV of where the One Ring is headed. The really interesting question is whether or not Sauron will still get a chance to see Pippin and how this will be handled next year.

As Leto II of the Dune series is fond of saying:

I love surprises.

[Turgon]

Ok some quick facts:

- Sauron released the Nazgul to search for the ‘one’ ring. He didn’t unleash his full force to hunt for the ring because he didn’t want to draw attention to it since he wasn’t really sure exactly where it was.

- Sauron now knows exactly where it is. And its half way between Gondor and Mordor.

- We can’t follow the book because Jackson changed so much of it so we have to follow the movie, so bare with me; it’s going to get kind of confusing, PJ isn’t a great screenwriter (with story depth), as you will see.

(((This is the movie version)))
Ok the ring is on the east side of the river; the side closest to Mordor. This is proved by the fact that the bridge is out and there is nowhere to cross for a hundred miles in either direction, Faramir was on the east side of the river (Henneth Annun) and walked straight into Osgiliath. Also Frodo and Sam walk out of Osgiliath towards Mordor, this would have been impossible if Frodo and Sam were on the West side and Mordor occupied the east side (as you can see PJs scene setting makes no sense). So you ask the question ‘why the hell did Gondor blow the bridge if Saurons forces already hold the west side and this would mean the Gondorians would be trapped on the east side of the river?’ Meaning the ring is in no way going to Gondor!!!

Ok does that make sense because honestly PJ is confusing the hell out of me! How did Saurons forces take the west side and Gondors hold the east? ERRRR, so confusing!

Now we know (in the movie version) that Faramir’s forces are trapped on the east side of the river with virtually no hope to getting to the other side; getting to Gondor. This would most certainly mean that Faramir’s forces were also completely surrounded on all sides since they are on the east side of the river (enemy territory). But for now lets just play PJs game and pretend that Saurons forces are only on the west side of the river because that can explain why Sam and Frodo walked out of Osgiliath with no trouble at all.

Some more facts:

- So now Sauron also knows that the ring is in no way going to Gondor (this is so freaking funny how bad PJ did this scene). The ring is trapped on the east side of the river within easy grasp of Saurons mighty army and obviously the army stationed (led by the Witch-King) at Minas Morgul is not the one on the west side of the river because Faramirs forces would been obliterated if they encountered it (the army that leaves Minas Morgul is the main driving force in the battle for the White City and thus should have no problem wiping up a small group of soldiers such as Faramirs and the town guard of Osgiliath).

- Sauron is also very wise, as wise or even wiser than Galadriel. He would surely now see why the fellowship was sent out, to destroy the ring in the place where it was forged. Why else would they be so close to Mordor, and if they were headed to Minas Tirith why are they in Osgiliath since this puts the to far east and at risk? Also no one can wield it, so why are they bringing it to Gondor? The only logical thing is that they are passing through Gondor to get to Mordor to destroy it. You forget how wise Sauron is, you can't play him for a fool.

I hope you understand what I’m saying because it’s tough explaining a scene that has no depth (depth is something Tolkien is famous for and obviously PJ doesn’t care for it). But like someone said above, ‘we can’t pick a part a story two-thirds told, we must wait for the last part to see if PJ can explain what we believe is a fault’.

[Arathorn]

Originally posted by Turgon
Ok some quick facts:

- Sauron released the Nazgul to search for the ‘one’ ring. He didn’t unleash his full force to hunt for the ring because he didn’t want to draw attention to it since he wasn’t really sure exactly where it was.

- Sauron now knows exactly where it is. And its half way between Gondor and Mordor.

I agree.

(((This is the movie version)))
Ok the ring is on the east side of the river; the side closest to Mordor. This is proved by the fact that the bridge is out and there is nowhere to cross for a hundred miles in either direction, Faramir was on the east side of the river (Henneth Annun) and walked straight into Osgiliath. Also Frodo and Sam walk out of Osgiliath towards Mordor, this would have been impossible if Frodo and Sam were on the West side and Mordor occupied the east side (as you can see PJs scene setting makes no sense). So you ask the question ‘why the hell did Gondor blow the bridge if Saurons forces already hold the west side and this would mean the Gondorians would be trapped on the east side of the river?’ Meaning the ring is in no way going to Gondor!!!

Ok does that make sense because honestly PJ is confusing the hell out of me! How did Saurons forces take the west side and Gondors hold the east? ERRRR, so confusing!

Now we know (in the movie version) that Faramir’s forces are trapped on the east side of the river with virtually no hope to getting to the other side; getting to Gondor. This would most certainly mean that Faramir’s forces were also completely surrounded on all sides since they are on the east side of the river (enemy territory). But for now lets just play PJs game and pretend that Saurons forces are only on the west side of the river because that can explain why Sam and Frodo walked out of Osgiliath with no trouble at all.

I think that the scene on Osqiliath is just a minor skirmish and that Sauron's ground forces were still mostly within Mordor's north gate. Also, remember that Faramir still had to fight his way back to Minas Tirith in the 3rd volume of the books. There's still plenty of room to play around with if one is change things for the movie version.

Some more facts:

- So now Sauron also knows that the ring is in no way going to Gondor (this is so freaking funny how bad PJ did this scene). The ring is trapped on the east side of the river within easy grasp of Saurons mighty army and obviously the army stationed (led by the Witch-King) at Minas Morgul is not the one on the west side of the river because Faramirs forces would been obliterated if they encountered it (the army that leaves Minas Morgul is the main driving force in the battle for the White City and thus should have no problem wiping up a small group of soldiers such as Faramirs and the town guard of Osgiliath).

Too early to tell what happens since Minas Morgul has not been explicitly shown going out. We may need to wait for Sam, Frodo and Gollum to see them. Also, notice that the Nazgul saw Frodo (in the film) in Osgiliath and not in the caves (which is Faramir's secret hideout. All's not lost. My thinking is that the east side of the river is full of guerilla warfare on Faramir's part like the ambush they prepared for the easterlings and their Oliphaunts.

- Sauron is also very wise, as wise or even wiser than Galadriel. He would surely now see why the fellowship was sent out, to destroy the ring in the place where it was forged. Why else would they be so close to Mordor, and if they were headed to Minas Tirith why are they in Osgiliath since this puts the to far east and at risk? Also no one can wield it, so why are they bringing it to Gondor? The only logical thing is that they are passing through Gondor to get to Mordor to destroy it. You forget how wise Sauron is, you can't play him for a fool.

I hope you understand what I’m saying because it’s tough explaining a scene that has no depth (depth is something Tolkien is famous for and obviously PJ doesn’t care for it). But like someone said above, ‘we can’t pick a part a story two-thirds told, we must wait for the last part to see if PJ can explain what we believe is a fault’.

I respect your opinion on this one as well as the others but I offer another possible explanation that with all the forces at his disposal, and knowing that men had seen the One Ring, his arrogance can still be his undoing. Remember that it was pointed out that men could easily take the ring from the hobbits to try to save Minas Tirith. Men can easily be corrupted by it and, thus, be turned or fooled so that his wraiths can finally give it to him.