epic

legolas_2002 · 12-18-2002, 02:21 PM

does everyone else feel like something is missing from their lives having finished reading the LOTR trilogy? ive read it 4 times in the last 2 yrs, partly as its the best piece of literature every written, and partly because i feel a large empty hole within me when i finish. this admittedly isnt helped by the beautifully enigmatic words uttered by sam as the final chapter reaches its poignant climax, although there is much more to it than that.
tolkien has a unique art in iniviting the reader to share the rollercoaster ride, and as a result draws you further and further into the depths of middle-earth, until you are surrounded with the emotion and turmoil that frodo, sam et al are faced with. He takes us through death, birth, marriage as if we are there.
This is, ive recently come to realize, what saddens me the most- the fact that im losing friends. friends which i know are no more real than unicorns, and happy endings, but special, life-long companions who are always there at your fingertips. People whom as time goes on, and the pages numbers continualy pass by, you come to understand, and care for. Poeple who you shed tears for during their heart-aches, and cry in jubilation with during their happiest hours.

So, heres to you tolkein, where ever you are, for stiring up such emotion and offering such genuine insites into the minds of heros...

for reassurance of sanity a like minded reply would be nice!

Coney · 12-18-2002, 04:37 PM

To a varying degree about 1700 'mooter all feel the same way (I think).........That's why we are all here talking about LotR

Elfhelm · 12-18-2002, 05:01 PM

I believe that feeling comes because it is so easy to relate to Samwise. No matter how farfetched the rest of the story can get. there is always Sam and he is us. After 25 plus years I still get tingles in my heart.

Now go fill that vacant hole with the tale of Beren and Luthien!

Blackboar · 12-18-2002, 05:42 PM

That happens to me!!!!

Thats why I always read TheHobbit followed byLotR then the whole Silmarillion then someother random book by Tolkien then a J.Wilson book or D.Adams book then I start again!!

Anyway, thats why I go on the Moot! So when I'm not reading it I'm still discussing it and everything! Its not like its the only reson I go on the MooT! I love Tolkien! I go on it ALL the time!

I also watch LotR every other week! (Soon to be TTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Erawyn · 12-18-2002, 10:31 PM

I totally agree, the books pull you in and in comparison, the real world is sometimes rather shallow and disapointing...

Ñólendil · 12-19-2002, 01:35 AM

The Lord of the Rings really is a bitter-sweet story, and I know just what you mean. Tolkien once said that as a Roman Catholic he could not think of history as anything but a long defeat, though not without glimpses of victory, and that the Lord of the Rings was one such glimpse. Only a glimpse.

One of the things that for me give Sam's words at the end so much power is their simplicity. After all that, well, he's back. No profound philosophy would have been more fitting. Readers don't need to hear a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about what they are supposed to get out of the story -- whatever they got, they got, the story has been told, and Sam is back. It's also a nice way of saying "things are sad, but I've got my life and I'm going to live it", but he can't say that! He has to understate, because that's all that is needed, and that's very Sam too. I think, now, that when I read that line after having read the Lord of the Rings from beginning to end (which I rarely do now-a-days), I'm in Sam's seat when he says it, and I've got Elanor on my lap. I close the book and I think yeah, I am back, and I think about all I've been through.

Most clear in my mind is always the vision of the grey ship sailing away, and of Frodo beholding the green land under a swift sunrise, like he saw in Tom's house, and it leaves me with a very strong sense of loss and beauty.

Coney · 12-19-2002, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil
[i]One of the things that for me give Sam's words at the end so much power is their simplicity. After all that, well, he's back..

Of course. IMO this was the feeling of Tolkien, and thousands of other, had on returning after the WW1.........there is a lot of symbolism re WW1 in LotR (Sams disapointment when Frodo is not treat as a hero in the Shire etc).

legolas_2002 · 12-19-2002, 12:12 PM

Quote:

I totally agree, the books pull you in and in comparison, the real world is sometimes rather shallow and disappointing...

i agree definately, which is part of my sadness when ive reached the end...and it happens time and time again! WHY OH WHY DO WE NEVER LEARN?!!!

I think this is the beauty of the LOTR trilogy (and all other tolkien literature to a lesser extent-other than The Hobbit, which is on a par with it), that you can constantly get lost in the words and taken away from reality, for just a small time, but long enough to long to be there. So when i'm forced to maintain a normal existance within this living realm, by being dragged away from Middle-Earth, everything else pales in comparison...

I hope heaven is like rivendell, and that God has the grace to grant me enough time on this earth to earn the right to go there...

Gwaimir Windgem · 12-20-2002, 12:29 AM

I know. Middle-Earth is such a rich, beautiful, full experience, it would be spectacular to live there.

And you don't earn your way into heaven...it comes from Grace.

Beleg Strongbow · 12-20-2002, 09:29 AM

eek. runs away from religious references.

Tolkien wanted to tell a story. And he told a good one.

Sween · 12-20-2002, 10:20 AM

i feel im missing a bit of adventure i would love to get right in there take up a sword and kill some orcs

, Its far superior to the knome stealing which we do for kicks round here

Falagar · 12-20-2002, 12:25 PM

My life feels pretty empty after LotR. Therefore I've also read the Silm. And after having read the Silm. for the 2nd time and LotR for the 5-6th time my life feels empty again. So I've now bought 5 HoME books (and read 1-2 of them) and read UT, and hope the rest of the HoME books will last for a while

And when I'm finished with them, I'll start reading LotR again.

Artanis · 12-20-2002, 03:49 PM

No, then you should read Letters.

Ñólendil · 12-20-2002, 08:12 PM

Quote:

there is a lot of symbolism re WW1 in LotR (Sams disapointment when Frodo is not treat as a hero in the Shire etc).

I disagree entirely. I do not think there is any symbolism whatever in the Lord of the Rings at all. Tolkien did not write symbolic stories, except for "Leaf by Niggle". I think one can relate many things in the story to WWI, but I do not think there is any symbolism to be found.

Wayfarer · 12-20-2002, 09:38 PM

There's a difference between symbolism and metaphor. The things in tolkiens work are not symbols, they are themselves. If you want to apply them to other things, that's fine, but don't pretend that they're anything but themselves while you do so.

WallRocker · 12-22-2002, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney
To a varying degree about 1700 'mooter all feel the same way (I think).........That's why we are all here talking about LotR

defiently. Talknng about LotR helps feel that void I feel in life

*starts to cry and then remembers that LotR is waiting upstairs* *sounds of crashing as WallRocker falls out of his chair in excitement*

Curunír · 12-22-2002, 07:04 PM

Middle earth is the world where I can breath. I'm an addict, and Middle-earth is my drug...for the rest of my life in this world.

Falagar · 12-22-2002, 07:06 PM

Quote:

No, then you should read Letters.

Oh, right! Thanks for reminding me

katya · 12-23-2002, 12:55 AM

I can agree with most of this thread so far. I remember definately feeling that I was losing friends. I know I can go back and re-live it whenever I want, but that's more like telling stories about old friends than actually being there with them. I remember feeling as a read the story the first time that i was there. In the first few chapters of TTT I literally tried to read faster so Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas could catch up to the Uruk-Hai. I felt silly when I realized what I was doing but whatever.

I can also definately relate to feeling that the real world was really horrible. (well ok not that horrible...) I kept thinking "I can't believe him; Aragorn would never do that," or "People should be more like hobbits."

Elf Girl · 12-23-2002, 10:30 AM

Every time I read the last chapter I cry. Every time. Without fail. Even when I know excactly what's going to happen. It's weird.

The first time I read it, I was sobbing.

12-18-2002, 02:21 PM	#1
legolas_2002 Sapling Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Imladris, then Gondor Posts: 12	epic does everyone else feel like something is missing from their lives having finished reading the LOTR trilogy? ive read it 4 times in the last 2 yrs, partly as its the best piece of literature every written, and partly because i feel a large empty hole within me when i finish. this admittedly isnt helped by the beautifully enigmatic words uttered by sam as the final chapter reaches its poignant climax, although there is much more to it than that. tolkien has a unique art in iniviting the reader to share the rollercoaster ride, and as a result draws you further and further into the depths of middle-earth, until you are surrounded with the emotion and turmoil that frodo, sam et al are faced with. He takes us through death, birth, marriage as if we are there. This is, ive recently come to realize, what saddens me the most- the fact that im losing friends. friends which i know are no more real than unicorns, and happy endings, but special, life-long companions who are always there at your fingertips. People whom as time goes on, and the pages numbers continualy pass by, you come to understand, and care for. Poeple who you shed tears for during their heart-aches, and cry in jubilation with during their happiest hours. So, heres to you tolkein, where ever you are, for stiring up such emotion and offering such genuine insites into the minds of heros... for reassurance of sanity a like minded reply would be nice!

12-18-2002, 04:37 PM	#2
Coney The Buddy Rabbit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Trapped in the headlights.. Posts: 3,372	To a varying degree about 1700 'mooter all feel the same way (I think).........That's why we are all here talking about LotR __________________ Blessed are the cracked, they let the light in Beatallica

12-18-2002, 05:01 PM	#3
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	I believe that feeling comes because it is so easy to relate to Samwise. No matter how farfetched the rest of the story can get. there is always Sam and he is us. After 25 plus years I still get tingles in my heart. Now go fill that vacant hole with the tale of Beren and Luthien! __________________ cya

12-18-2002, 05:42 PM	#4
Blackboar Legolas's beloved sister and Queen of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Under the hill at Bag-end, Hobbiton the Shire Or Rivendell,I can't remember!!!!!!!!!! Posts: 1,086	That happens to me!!!! Thats why I always read TheHobbit followed byLotR then the whole Silmarillion then someother random book by Tolkien then a J.Wilson book or D.Adams book then I start again!! Anyway, thats why I go on the Moot! So when I'm not reading it I'm still discussing it and everything! Its not like its the only reson I go on the MooT! I love Tolkien! I go on it ALL the time! I also watch LotR every other week! (Soon to be TTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Last edited by Blackboar : 12-18-2002 at 05:44 PM.

12-18-2002, 10:31 PM	#5
Erawyn Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: america junior Posts: 320	I totally agree, the books pull you in and in comparison, the real world is sometimes rather shallow and disapointing... __________________ peace never hurt anyone "Be not so bigoted to any custom as to worship it at the expense of Truth." Johann Georg von Zimmermann

12-19-2002, 01:35 AM	#6
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	The Lord of the Rings really is a bitter-sweet story, and I know just what you mean. Tolkien once said that as a Roman Catholic he could not think of history as anything but a long defeat, though not without glimpses of victory, and that the Lord of the Rings was one such glimpse. Only a glimpse. One of the things that for me give Sam's words at the end so much power is their simplicity. After all that, well, he's back. No profound philosophy would have been more fitting. Readers don't need to hear a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about what they are supposed to get out of the story -- whatever they got, they got, the story has been told, and Sam is back. It's also a nice way of saying "things are sad, but I've got my life and I'm going to live it", but he can't say that! He has to understate, because that's all that is needed, and that's very Sam too. I think, now, that when I read that line after having read the Lord of the Rings from beginning to end (which I rarely do now-a-days), I'm in Sam's seat when he says it, and I've got Elanor on my lap. I close the book and I think yeah, I am back, and I think about all I've been through. Most clear in my mind is always the vision of the grey ship sailing away, and of Frodo beholding the green land under a swift sunrise, like he saw in Tom's house, and it leaves me with a very strong sense of loss and beauty. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-20-2002, 12:29 AM	#9
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I know. Middle-Earth is such a rich, beautiful, full experience, it would be spectacular to live there. And you don't earn your way into heaven...it comes from Grace. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

12-20-2002, 09:29 AM	#10
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	eek. runs away from religious references. Tolkien wanted to tell a story. And he told a good one. __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

12-20-2002, 10:20 AM	#11
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	i feel im missing a bit of adventure i would love to get right in there take up a sword and kill some orcs , Its far superior to the knome stealing which we do for kicks round here __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

12-20-2002, 12:25 PM	#12
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	My life feels pretty empty after LotR. Therefore I've also read the Silm. And after having read the Silm. for the 2nd time and LotR for the 5-6th time my life feels empty again. So I've now bought 5 HoME books (and read 1-2 of them) and read UT, and hope the rest of the HoME books will last for a while And when I'm finished with them, I'll start reading LotR again. __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

12-20-2002, 03:49 PM	#13
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	No, then you should read Letters. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

12-20-2002, 09:38 PM	#15
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	There's a difference between symbolism and metaphor. The things in tolkiens work are not symbols, they are themselves. If you want to apply them to other things, that's fine, but don't pretend that they're anything but themselves while you do so. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-22-2002, 07:04 PM	#17
Curunír Enting Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: iepe kriepe friepe liepe Posts: 95	Middle earth is the world where I can breath. I'm an addict, and Middle-earth is my drug...for the rest of my life in this world. __________________ Innie winnie frimmie zillie hoele kroele froele troele ape krape rape zape ulle frulle kulle a cup of milk huy!

12-23-2002, 12:55 AM	#19
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I can agree with most of this thread so far. I remember definately feeling that I was losing friends. I know I can go back and re-live it whenever I want, but that's more like telling stories about old friends than actually being there with them. I remember feeling as a read the story the first time that i was there. In the first few chapters of TTT I literally tried to read faster so Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas could catch up to the Uruk-Hai. I felt silly when I realized what I was doing but whatever. I can also definately relate to feeling that the real world was really horrible. (well ok not that horrible...) I kept thinking "I can't believe him; Aragorn would never do that," or "People should be more like hobbits."

12-23-2002, 10:30 AM	#20
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Every time I read the last chapter I cry. Every time. Without fail. Even when I know excactly what's going to happen. It's weird. The first time I read it, I was sobbing. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

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