Númenor's Legacy

Maedhros · 11-06-2002, 12:53 AM

What do you think is the greater legacy that the Island of Númenor had in ME.
Was it it's Culture or the ancient blood line of Elros?

Ms. Undomial · 11-06-2002, 01:02 PM

I would have the culture.

Ñólendil · 11-06-2002, 08:21 PM

I am sure that to one of the Third or Fourth Age, the greater legacy would be the blood-line of the royals. However, we remember Númenor today as Atlantis, and shadows of the culture of that isle still live on in our stories. I don't know, but I don't think that Plato spoke overmuch of the Kings fo Atlantis.

Maedhros · 11-06-2002, 10:46 PM

I wonder sometimes, why is blood that important. Sure, the "pure" line of kings lived far longer than those of Mortal Men, but so what?
Isn't their beliefs and knowledge, the best support for their civilization in the future.

afro-elf · 11-07-2002, 02:44 AM

I would say culture. It takes more than a king to build that kind of history. All Numenoreans were enchanced when they went to Numenor.

BeardofPants · 11-07-2002, 03:00 AM

Culture is very important, but in the case of the Numenoreans, you could perhaps argue that the reason their culture was so advanced and complicated, was because of their genetic "blood" stock. They were a long lived people, and this factor could be tied directly to the advancement of the Numenorean culture.

Artanis · 11-07-2002, 03:04 AM

Bloodlines and inheritage seems to be of vital importance in Tolkien's world. Elendil and his sons had an Elvish strain in their blood, being descendants from Elros. I think this was more important to ME than the Númenorean culture. In this view the marriage between Aragorn and Arwen also has another aspect, besides that of Arwen being an inspiration for Aragorn to win kingship; With that union there was a renewed Elvish strain in the blood of the new Númenorean kingdom of Men in ME.

I also consider a long life a pre for a ruler of a kingdom. Often wisdom comes with age, especially in a world where peoples environment and way of living don't change much over the years.

olsonm · 11-07-2002, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maedhros
What do you think is the greater legacy that the Island of Númenor had in ME.

The shape of the Earth.

Celebrian · 11-07-2002, 07:14 PM

I think that it is the blood lines, Tolkien places a lot of importance on them, and long life would certainly be important in a king.

Sween · 11-07-2002, 07:34 PM

its far more than long life the heirs of elendil obvosly had quite superior intelegence valor and stamina than any other people. they were also pretty much taller than anyone else.

also strikes me that there was an inhearent knoledge in the line of elendil the ability to heal and so forth.

dont forget that much of the lore of the numoerians was lost at the time of the war of the ring and in the end the heir of isildur saved the day so in conclusion it was the blood that was more important.

afro-elf · 11-07-2002, 09:10 PM

ALL Numenoreans were enchanced by the Valar. BUT it was only the Royal house that had Elven blood. The Royals did not do EVERY single act of importance. However, it seems that the Royals had DRAMATIC affects on ME.

Lefty Scaevola · 11-07-2002, 11:10 PM

The greatest sailors in the world, greater (or perhaps more blessed by the Valar and Osse) than Cirdan's sailors. Some passage in one of the of HoME or maybe it was UT metions that NO Numenorian ship ever sank or foundered until the downfall.

Keith K · 11-13-2002, 12:23 AM

The bloodlines are more important to the story than cultural considerations. By far. That makes it the legacy of greater importance.

Lief Erikson · 11-13-2002, 05:05 PM

I also think that it was the bloodline. As Sween said, other attributes come with them, like valor, stamina, and possibly superior intellect (Height is a small one, but still there). Aragorn is probably the greatest of men in Middle Earth at his time, and they were all like him. They were so strong that Sauron was weak next to their strength, and they had power over the world when they were at the height of their pride and strength.

They were blessed by the Valar, and I think were basically like a race of superior men. They also were humble and good, in the beginning, just as they should be. As a matter of a fact, that has allegories to the Bible in it too. But after their power came, pride came with it and evil came with Sauron. And then they had to be punished for falling into sin.

11-06-2002, 12:53 AM	#1
Maedhros The Tall Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 578	Númenor's Legacy What do you think is the greater legacy that the Island of Númenor had in ME. Was it it's Culture or the ancient blood line of Elros? __________________ “What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.

11-06-2002, 01:02 PM	#2
Ms. Undomial Custous Sanctus Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In your subconsicious.... Posts: 1,184	I would have the culture. __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune

11-06-2002, 08:21 PM	#3
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I am sure that to one of the Third or Fourth Age, the greater legacy would be the blood-line of the royals. However, we remember Númenor today as Atlantis, and shadows of the culture of that isle still live on in our stories. I don't know, but I don't think that Plato spoke overmuch of the Kings fo Atlantis. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-06-2002, 10:46 PM	#4
Maedhros The Tall Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 578	I wonder sometimes, why is blood that important. Sure, the "pure" line of kings lived far longer than those of Mortal Men, but so what? Isn't their beliefs and knowledge, the best support for their civilization in the future. __________________ “What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.

11-07-2002, 02:44 AM	#5
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I would say culture. It takes more than a king to build that kind of history. All Numenoreans were enchanced when they went to Numenor. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

11-07-2002, 03:00 AM	#6
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Culture is very important, but in the case of the Numenoreans, you could perhaps argue that the reason their culture was so advanced and complicated, was because of their genetic "blood" stock. They were a long lived people, and this factor could be tied directly to the advancement of the Numenorean culture. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

11-07-2002, 03:04 AM	#7
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	Bloodlines and inheritage seems to be of vital importance in Tolkien's world. Elendil and his sons had an Elvish strain in their blood, being descendants from Elros. I think this was more important to ME than the Númenorean culture. In this view the marriage between Aragorn and Arwen also has another aspect, besides that of Arwen being an inspiration for Aragorn to win kingship; With that union there was a renewed Elvish strain in the blood of the new Númenorean kingdom of Men in ME. I also consider a long life a pre for a ruler of a kingdom. Often wisdom comes with age, especially in a world where peoples environment and way of living don't change much over the years. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

11-07-2002, 07:14 PM	#9
Celebrian Enting Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 75	I think that it is the blood lines, Tolkien places a lot of importance on them, and long life would certainly be important in a king. __________________ All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost. Tall ships and tall kings, three times three. What brought they form the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones and one white tree.

11-07-2002, 07:34 PM	#10
Sween im quite stupid Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cockermouth Posts: 2,058	its far more than long life the heirs of elendil obvosly had quite superior intelegence valor and stamina than any other people. they were also pretty much taller than anyone else. also strikes me that there was an inhearent knoledge in the line of elendil the ability to heal and so forth. dont forget that much of the lore of the numoerians was lost at the time of the war of the ring and in the end the heir of isildur saved the day so in conclusion it was the blood that was more important. __________________ Yeah god hes ok but i would rather be judged by a sheep than that idiot

11-07-2002, 09:10 PM	#11
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	ALL Numenoreans were enchanced by the Valar. BUT it was only the Royal house that had Elven blood. The Royals did not do EVERY single act of importance. However, it seems that the Royals had DRAMATIC affects on ME. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

11-07-2002, 11:10 PM	#12
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	The greatest sailors in the world, greater (or perhaps more blessed by the Valar and Osse) than Cirdan's sailors. Some passage in one of the of HoME or maybe it was UT metions that NO Numenorian ship ever sank or foundered until the downfall. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

11-13-2002, 12:23 AM	#13
Keith K Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: charlotte, n.c. Posts: 1,081	The bloodlines are more important to the story than cultural considerations. By far. That makes it the legacy of greater importance.

11-13-2002, 05:05 PM	#14
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	I also think that it was the bloodline. As Sween said, other attributes come with them, like valor, stamina, and possibly superior intellect (Height is a small one, but still there). Aragorn is probably the greatest of men in Middle Earth at his time, and they were all like him. They were so strong that Sauron was weak next to their strength, and they had power over the world when they were at the height of their pride and strength. They were blessed by the Valar, and I think were basically like a race of superior men. They also were humble and good, in the beginning, just as they should be. As a matter of a fact, that has allegories to the Bible in it too. But after their power came, pride came with it and evil came with Sauron. And then they had to be punished for falling into sin.

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