How do you thinkend Jackson will the trilogy?

[GRONK!!!]

This is probably looking too far ahead, but do you think Jackson will stick with the ending where the hobbits return to the Shire? Personally GRONK thinks its unlikely. First off, not counting horror movies and a few exceptions Hollywood never has the main character have any final challenges after the main characters solved the main problem in the story. Viewers would probably be disturbed to see the battles in Shire after the rings already been destroyed. Besides this, think Jackson will invent any female hobbits in the movie just to add love interests? GRONK can see people arguing that either way. You know the romance with Aaragorn would never be enough for some people. Finally, think the trilogy will end with Frodo still scarred from the ring slightly and unsatisfied with hobbit life? If the movie ends with the 4 main hobbits leaving Shire like in the book it wont be the unconditional happy ending that movies generally have. GRONK wants to hear some opinions.

[markedel]

One hopes he can keep it. The greatness of LOTR is that its not a "fairy tale" but as Nolendil likes to call it a "heroic romance" that is tragic at its core. The tragedy is what makes it great.

[GRONK!!!]

GRONK supposes the question would be then is trajedy what the public wants, and if not then is Jackson going to adapt the books for them.

[cassiopeia]

I have heard that the last scene is Frodo and Bilbo at the Grey Havens saying something like, Lets go on another adventure. But I am not really sure. I am certain there will be no scouring of the Shire, but perhaps the Shire will be disturbed in some way. I don't see the need for PJ to invent female Hobbits, since Sam marries Rosie (who is already in the movie) and Pippin and Merry also get married in the end. A girlfriend for Frodo? I think there would be a lot of protests if that happened.

[Kallasilya]

I think there will be no disturbance and the Shire will be left completely alone... it would be too unsetteling for the audience, just when they thought the hobbits would get a break. In fact, the first time I read the book I also found this part rather unsatisfying because it seemed so anti-climatic after everything that went on in Mordor. (I'm learning to appreciate it now though)

As for the VERY VERY end, I think PJ will leave in the Grey Havens. It's the perfect end to the movie and it will leave the audience in tears... or maybe that's just me *sniffles*.

[BeardofPants]

The grey havens *is* the perfect ending, and if he does it any other way, I'll kick his heiny all the way to Invercargill.

[IronParrot]

The Grey Havens is supposedly Jackson's favourite part of the entire novel, so no way is he leaving that out...

But I think it's more likely that the final shot will be of the ships disappearing over the horizon, instead of Sam going back to Hobbiton and his last line, "Well, I'm back."

[GRONK!!!]

How did the topic name end up like that? Thats not where GRONK put the word end. Anyway to redit topic names?

GRONKs uncertain about the Gray Havens thing. It implies that PJ will stick to the ending where Frodo remains slightly tainted with the ring and unsatisfied by life. It would also mean that they'd use the epilogue on how while Sam, Merry, and Pippin where loved by the Shire Frodo was an outcast. GRONK thought this ending was fitting, but not satisfying the first time he read LotR. After watching a character suffer for 3 books GRONK was looking for Frodo to get some happiness. GRONKs going to guess most movie goers would think the same way.

[Gerbil]

Unless someone has info I've missed from the last few months, I am pretty sure PJ has said definitively the scouring of the shire is out.
From what I recall, Frodo's visions in Galadriel's mirror of the Shire being attacked is there as a homage to the ending which is to be cut.
Which also means Saruman won't get the most deserving of deaths.

Which is annoying, because I thought his fall from grace into a pitiable state ultimately into a person purely motivated by petty revenge and his death at the hands of Grima were excellent.

Oh well.

Grey Havens had better have me in tears. I fear another uneccessary comedy moment from the Stooges - possibly Pippin falling into the water or something equally stupid

[Dunadan]

That's terrible! The Scouring is the whole point about the whole book. However, I agree he'd be insane not to finish with the Grey Havens. On a finer point of detail, I hope they include the last paragraph, which is the best in the whole book.

Don't fret, Saruman is bound to get his just desserts at some point. Arch-villains simply are not allowed to get away with it in movies.

No doubt all of these details have been filmed and will be gradually released in consecutive DVD editions throughout 2004/5.

[Gerbil]

Originally posted by Dunadan
[B]That's terrible! The Scouring is the whole point about the whole book.

Shush! Imagine if PJ hears that and RotK is simply the scouring and nothing else! Ack
Besides, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's the whole point, but I would say it was an integral part of the story.

Don't fret, Saruman is bound to get his just desserts at some point. Arch-villains simply are not allowed to get away with it in movies.

Indeed. And I hope he enjoys being pushed out of Orthanc by Grima (guesswork) to land on the spikey wheel thingy. (not guesswork). The trouble is, they've made Saruman's death more 'filmsey' (if you get my drift), whereas in the book, Saruman's death is one of the most interesting, unique and deserved endings of any 'baddy' I recall reading. Too unique, it would appear.

[Dunadan]

So Grima chucks Saruman out instead of the Palantir? Hmm. Sounds a bit pants. I agree with you; there was very important stuff around Saruman to do with giving him the chance to repent, even when he'd half-destroyed the Shire.

My reasons for saying that about the Scouring is because I think the book's main theme is losing something in order to save it, and even then it will never be the same again.

[Gerbil]

So Grima chucks Saruman out instead of the Palantir?

Grima pushing Saruman is entirely my own wild guess (that I've not put a lot of thought into either!). That Saruman dies impaled on a spike is pretty much a certainty, unless PJ decided to re-do this bit after all the leaks. How he ends up getting impaled is anyone's guess, but he's hardly likely to commit suicide (cop out in Hollywood terms if nothing else). So he must get pushed. None of the main goodies are likely to do this so it leaves us with either Grima or one of the Ents (so most likely Treebeard). Your guess is as good as mine.
I'd normally have leant away from Treebeard since he's 'good', and Tolkien was not a big fan of 'good' people doing bad things, even when pushed to it. PJ, of course, might ignore this completely for a standard Hollywood 'retribution' scene.
Grima, of course, is no stranger to treachery, and since in the books he kills Saruman, PJ might simply change the scenario. This, to my mind, would be the best of a bad bunch of possibilities, but it sadly only makes sense if they play up Saruman treating Grima like the dog he is. Which of course only really happened after Saruman had been allowed to leave Orthanc and he finally degenerated into a mean-spirited, revenge-driven git. Oh well.

My reasons for saying that about the Scouring is because I think the book's main theme is losing something in order to save it, and even then it will never be the same again.

Also, that to save something, often someone has to sacrifice themselves for it - IE they save it for others.

Oh well, there are tons of themes in LotR, which is probably one reason why it's so cool, there's bound to be something in there virtually everyone can associate with or appreciate

[Dunadan]

Originally posted by Gerbil
Also, that to save something, often someone has to sacrifice themselves for it - IE they save it for others.

Oh well, there are tons of themes in LotR, which is probably one reason why it's so cool, there's bound to be something in there virtually everyone can associate with or appreciate

Good point. Going for the subtle theme is hardly his style.

Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time false rumours have been started to provide a bit of controversy. Can you recall where/when PJ said the Scouring was out?

It's a pretty good guess that Sam is going to get off with Rosie at the end, though.

cheers

[Gerbil]

Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time false rumours have been started to provide a bit of controversy. Can you recall where/when PJ said the Scouring was out?

Nowhere precisely, but I do know I've read it numerous times on various sites in the past - it's taken directly from a transcript of an interview he gave where he said the Scouring was out. I think there are additional comments from him to expand on this, eg:

- The scenes in the mirror of Galadriel are his 'homage' to this part of the book
- He thinks that the Scouring simply doesn't work since dramatically the ending of the plot as such is Aragorn getting crowned. Anything after that is merely tying it all up. Scouring isn't part of this.

Plus (my addition), no Saruman, and you lose the best part of the scouring anyway. Which has given me a curious thought:

If Saruman is Maia - and all gods and lesser gods as well as elves have their spirits 'bound' to ME, IE must remain in it until the world ends, what happens to Saruman's spirit? If I recall once he dies, his spirit is 'refused' access to Aman, and as such just disperses. Well, either Saruman is one of the first 'people' to have thier spirit leave ME (errrr Elves that became human and probably Morgoth are the only other people I can think of), or his nasty evil spirit is left wandering ME. Not a nice thought