Tolkien and Everyday Life.

bropous · 10-19-2002, 03:04 PM

Okay, it borders on sophistry, but I had a thought spurred by another thread.

Can ANY of us actually get our minds around the sheer amount of thought and introspective argument Tolkien must have generated in his development of the Lord of the Rings, let alone the entire universe of Middle-Earth? Consider the arguments we have had on the Moot: Do Balrogs gots wings, what happened to the Entwives, were there two Glorfindels, what actually occurs when a ship slips out of the Grey Havens at the end of the Third Age headed for the Undying Lands, etc. Just imagine how HIS mind must have been completely consumed with these issues as well.

We have to know that the wonder we have all shared in exploring Middle-Earth must pale in comparison to the incredible wonder Tolkien himself must have had at how his world developed inside his head over the years, how the languages he created began to flesh out and become new rivers of communication for his creations of the mind, and how the characters he created from thin air became living, breathing creatures to all who have the patience and determination to read his books and attempt to understand even a fraction of the world he created for us all.

It's a rare gift that someone can paint such a full picture of an unseen world through use of words, but the fact that he also was able to do this not totally immersed in a vacuum but while living everyday life shows a much greater depth of thinking in this man than most folks we will ever meet.

He taught classes, graded papers, fought in a hell none of us could fully imagine either, married and had children, met friends down at the pub, worried over bills and balancing the house accounts, dealt with backed-up sewage in the basement, bought and sold lodgings, tended a garden, and a million other more ordinary and droll activities which could have scuttled his writing a work which took such devotion and longstanding dedication and focus.

I guess the big point is that even though he lived an ordinary life, he was able to create an extraordinary work of beauty.

To me, the lessons of Tolkien aren't only found in his writings, but in his life. What a GOOD man.

***IronParrot*** · 10-19-2002, 04:57 PM

Hear, hear.

Falagar · 10-19-2002, 05:32 PM

*agrees*

sun-star · 10-20-2002, 09:46 AM

I agree. But then, most artists live an everyday life as well as creating - it's not that difficult to do ordinary things when your mind is immersed in something completely different. Tolkien also had encouragment from his friends, and while being an Oxford professor does require work, it's not as if he worked at a factory all day or anything like. Creating so much was an incredible acheivement, but finding the time to do it wasn't that special, IMO.

Arathorn · 10-20-2002, 10:13 AM

With all the positive things said about the man, along with what bropous has said about him living an ordinary life, I can only say one thing it has done and will continue to do to me and possibly many other people:

INSPIRE....

Yes. I will continue to look for new things and skills to learn and be better at. Before I read his works, before I went a mooting, before I tried my hand at it, I didn't know I had a knack for poetry and writing. I'm gonna try to learn an musical instrument before the year ends.

Thanks Professor T.

bropous · 10-20-2002, 10:33 AM

BINGO, Arathorn.

"Inspire."

When you look at it, Tolkien's life is a strong suggestion to us all not to let mundane living quell the creative spirit inside us, no matter how long it takes to produce that work of individual vision of which we are all capable, we must pursue the realization of our true magic, the thought processes.

Congrats on trying your hand at poetry and writing, and good luck learning an instrument. I play cello, bass and keyboards (taught meself bass and keyboards) and though I only got to symphony level performance with the cello I think playing music at any level teaches a new viewpoint on the world. Good for you.

sun-star, one point though, maybe you should re-think your assessment of the difficulty of fulfilling the duties of an Oxford Professor of Languages, raising a family with numerous children and writing the greatest work of literature of the twentieth century. Teaching such intellectually tasking subject matter, and doing it well, plus conducting discussions relevant to the subject being tauht, having to grade STACKS of scholarly papers, dealing with grades and staff and headmasters and so forth are a lot more difficult, most definitely, than working in a factory (been there, done that).

I would disagree that finding the time needed to work out the process in his mind was not all that that special.

Artanis · 10-22-2002, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sun-star
I agree. But then, most artists live an everyday life as well as creating - it's not that difficult to do ordinary things when your mind is immersed in something completely different. Tolkien also had encouragment from his friends, and while being an Oxford professor does require work, it's not as if he worked at a factory all day or anything like. Creating so much was an incredible acheivement, but finding the time to do it wasn't that special, IMO.

I'm reading Letters, where Tolkien often states that he is grieviously loaded with duties and work, not leaving enough time for him to write his stories. But even if he says 'duties', I think he was suffering the same dilemma as many of us are today, there's so many fun and interesting activities to take part in, and we don't want to miss any of them. Tolkien had his family, his friends, his work, his garden, and his authorship. Sometimes he just didn't have time to tend it all properly. Conclusion: He did a tremendous work creating ME, sometimes he neglected his other duties to achieve it, and I think he loved it.

Maren · 10-22-2002, 09:16 AM

Well put!

Tolkien's incredible breadth is astounding!

While we speculate about the events of the Fourth Age, I can't imagine he didn't have an idea of what was going on. Or the story of Amroth and Nimrodel, I'm sure he had an ending in his mind, but, skilled writer that he was, he didn't reveal it.

I'm in awe everytime I open one of his works.

Maren

sun-star · 10-22-2002, 04:22 PM

I bow to your superior knowledge of Oxford dons, bropous

I don't disagree in sentiment, only in degree, and I'll modify my former statement: it was special (and admirable and inspirational) to work on something of such a scale while living an ordinary life, but it was not unique. That's all I meant.

***Earniel*** · 10-23-2002, 03:45 PM

Well said Arathorn. You've said exactly that which I couldn't put in words. Without Tolkien's Middle Earth I would be a much lesser person. Not that I'm saying that those who haven't read Tolkien yet are less worth but without Tolkien I would never have continued to draw for myself, I would never have explored fantasy further and I would never have started making stories and worlds up for my own.

10-19-2002, 03:04 PM	#1
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Tolkien and Everyday Life. Okay, it borders on sophistry, but I had a thought spurred by another thread. Can ANY of us actually get our minds around the sheer amount of thought and introspective argument Tolkien must have generated in his development of the Lord of the Rings, let alone the entire universe of Middle-Earth? Consider the arguments we have had on the Moot: Do Balrogs gots wings, what happened to the Entwives, were there two Glorfindels, what actually occurs when a ship slips out of the Grey Havens at the end of the Third Age headed for the Undying Lands, etc. Just imagine how HIS mind must have been completely consumed with these issues as well. We have to know that the wonder we have all shared in exploring Middle-Earth must pale in comparison to the incredible wonder Tolkien himself must have had at how his world developed inside his head over the years, how the languages he created began to flesh out and become new rivers of communication for his creations of the mind, and how the characters he created from thin air became living, breathing creatures to all who have the patience and determination to read his books and attempt to understand even a fraction of the world he created for us all. It's a rare gift that someone can paint such a full picture of an unseen world through use of words, but the fact that he also was able to do this not totally immersed in a vacuum but while living everyday life shows a much greater depth of thinking in this man than most folks we will ever meet. He taught classes, graded papers, fought in a hell none of us could fully imagine either, married and had children, met friends down at the pub, worried over bills and balancing the house accounts, dealt with backed-up sewage in the basement, bought and sold lodgings, tended a garden, and a million other more ordinary and droll activities which could have scuttled his writing a work which took such devotion and longstanding dedication and focus. I guess the big point is that even though he lived an ordinary life, he was able to create an extraordinary work of beauty. To me, the lessons of Tolkien aren't only found in his writings, but in his life. What a GOOD man. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 10-19-2002 at 03:05 PM.

10-19-2002, 04:57 PM	#2
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	Hear, hear. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

10-19-2002, 05:32 PM	#3
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	agrees __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

10-20-2002, 09:46 AM	#4
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I agree. But then, most artists live an everyday life as well as creating - it's not that difficult to do ordinary things when your mind is immersed in something completely different. Tolkien also had encouragment from his friends, and while being an Oxford professor does require work, it's not as if he worked at a factory all day or anything like. Creating so much was an incredible acheivement, but finding the time to do it wasn't that special, IMO. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

10-20-2002, 10:13 AM	#5
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	With all the positive things said about the man, along with what bropous has said about him living an ordinary life, I can only say one thing it has done and will continue to do to me and possibly many other people: INSPIRE.... Yes. I will continue to look for new things and skills to learn and be better at. Before I read his works, before I went a mooting, before I tried my hand at it, I didn't know I had a knack for poetry and writing. I'm gonna try to learn an musical instrument before the year ends. Thanks Professor T. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

10-20-2002, 10:33 AM	#6
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	BINGO, Arathorn. "Inspire." When you look at it, Tolkien's life is a strong suggestion to us all not to let mundane living quell the creative spirit inside us, no matter how long it takes to produce that work of individual vision of which we are all capable, we must pursue the realization of our true magic, the thought processes. Congrats on trying your hand at poetry and writing, and good luck learning an instrument. I play cello, bass and keyboards (taught meself bass and keyboards) and though I only got to symphony level performance with the cello I think playing music at any level teaches a new viewpoint on the world. Good for you. sun-star, one point though, maybe you should re-think your assessment of the difficulty of fulfilling the duties of an Oxford Professor of Languages, raising a family with numerous children and writing the greatest work of literature of the twentieth century. Teaching such intellectually tasking subject matter, and doing it well, plus conducting discussions relevant to the subject being tauht, having to grade STACKS of scholarly papers, dealing with grades and staff and headmasters and so forth are a lot more difficult, most definitely, than working in a factory (been there, done that). I would disagree that finding the time needed to work out the process in his mind was not all that that special. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. Last edited by bropous : 10-20-2002 at 10:44 AM.

10-22-2002, 09:16 AM	#8
Maren Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 24	Well put! Tolkien's incredible breadth is astounding! While we speculate about the events of the Fourth Age, I can't imagine he didn't have an idea of what was going on. Or the story of Amroth and Nimrodel, I'm sure he had an ending in his mind, but, skilled writer that he was, he didn't reveal it. I'm in awe everytime I open one of his works. Maren __________________ "Aragorn and Legolas went now with Eomer in the van." -TTT III:VII Van?!?!?! Red, right?

10-22-2002, 04:22 PM	#9
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I bow to your superior knowledge of Oxford dons, bropous I don't disagree in sentiment, only in degree, and I'll modify my former statement: it was special (and admirable and inspirational) to work on something of such a scale while living an ordinary life, but it was not unique. That's all I meant. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

10-23-2002, 03:45 PM	#10
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Well said Arathorn. You've said exactly that which I couldn't put in words. Without Tolkien's Middle Earth I would be a much lesser person. Not that I'm saying that those who haven't read Tolkien yet are less worth but without Tolkien I would never have continued to draw for myself, I would never have explored fantasy further and I would never have started making stories and worlds up for my own. __________________ We are not things.

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