The Grey Havens

Sanna · 08-16-2002, 07:42 PM

I just finished reading Lord of the Rings, and it has left me with a question on my mind.

It is said that the wizards came forth from the west, a place called Grey Havens, in order to help man defeat Sauron. In the end, Gandolf returns to the Grey Havens with Frodo, Bilbo, the Lady, Elrond, and later Sam goes as well. Is traveling to the Grey Havens the only way that they can die? Frodo goes because he is sick, Bilbo goes because he is so old, when Sam finally goes it is because he is old and dying. Yet other hobbits, such as Merry, remain and die on Middle Earth.

Or when they go to the Grey Havens, do they go somewhere else where they can live forever? Is that a gift to Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo for bearing the ring? Or is it a place like a heaven, and so Gandolf was sent from a god or gods to help the men?

Also, why did the other Elves remain if it was the beginning of the 4th age, age of man, and end of middle earth? Someone help me straighten this out please!

Sanna

Liviaine · 08-16-2002, 08:55 PM

Actually, I think that the Grey Havens and the Undying Lands are 2 different places. Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam went because they bore the Ring. Gandalf is one of the Maiar, so he was kind of sent from the Valar. I'm not sure about the plural and singular of Maia and Vala or whatever.

Some elves stayed for the beginning of the 4th age but eventually went to the Undying Lands, like Legolas. I guess the ones that stayed in Middle-Earth, like Arwen, eventually became mortal and died.

Mirahzi · 08-16-2002, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liviaine
I guess the ones that stayed in Middle-Earth, like Arwen, eventually became mortal and died.

Arwen only became mortal because of her love for Aragorn, a mortal. The other elves, assuming they did not fall in love with mortals, would simply live in Middle Earth until the end, go back to the West, or, in some cases, die from grief.

Sanna · 08-17-2002, 12:00 AM

What will happen to them in Grey Havens? Will they die?

Thanks to those who responded to my first post

)

Sanna

Mirahzi · 08-17-2002, 12:03 AM

Usually when it's said that a person went to the Grey Havens, it means that from there, they went on to the Undying Lands.

However, the Grey Havens is a part of Middle Earth, so if a mortal stayed there, he would eventually die.

Ñólendil · 08-17-2002, 03:03 AM

A mortal who stayed anywhere would eventually die. Only Tuor, grandfather of Elrond and Elros Half-elven, became immortal.

The Grey Havens, or in the Elvish tongue Mithlond, was a settlement of Elves in the extreem Northwest of Middle-earth. Elves often used the ships there to sail away to the Blessed Realm, and the reasons for this has been thoroughly discussed on Entmoot. You can conduct a search if you like. Mortals who go the Blessed Realm (like Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gimli) find peace, bliss and healing for a short time, before they lay down their lives willingly and go withersoever they are doomed to go.

Sanna · 08-17-2002, 02:30 PM

Oh, okay. I understand much more clearly now. Thanks for the help.

Sanna

08-16-2002, 07:42 PM	#1
Sanna Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kansas Posts: 20	The Grey Havens I just finished reading Lord of the Rings, and it has left me with a question on my mind. It is said that the wizards came forth from the west, a place called Grey Havens, in order to help man defeat Sauron. In the end, Gandolf returns to the Grey Havens with Frodo, Bilbo, the Lady, Elrond, and later Sam goes as well. Is traveling to the Grey Havens the only way that they can die? Frodo goes because he is sick, Bilbo goes because he is so old, when Sam finally goes it is because he is old and dying. Yet other hobbits, such as Merry, remain and die on Middle Earth. Or when they go to the Grey Havens, do they go somewhere else where they can live forever? Is that a gift to Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo for bearing the ring? Or is it a place like a heaven, and so Gandolf was sent from a god or gods to help the men? Also, why did the other Elves remain if it was the beginning of the 4th age, age of man, and end of middle earth? Someone help me straighten this out please! Sanna

08-17-2002, 12:00 AM	#4
Sanna Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kansas Posts: 20	So then... What will happen to them in Grey Havens? Will they die? Thanks to those who responded to my first post ) Sanna

08-17-2002, 12:03 AM	#5
Mirahzi Elf Lord Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,286	Usually when it's said that a person went to the Grey Havens, it means that from there, they went on to the Undying Lands. However, the Grey Havens is a part of Middle Earth, so if a mortal stayed there, he would eventually die. __________________ "For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest." - Fëanor

08-17-2002, 03:03 AM	#6
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	A mortal who stayed anywhere would eventually die. Only Tuor, grandfather of Elrond and Elros Half-elven, became immortal. The Grey Havens, or in the Elvish tongue Mithlond, was a settlement of Elves in the extreem Northwest of Middle-earth. Elves often used the ships there to sail away to the Blessed Realm, and the reasons for this has been thoroughly discussed on Entmoot. You can conduct a search if you like. Mortals who go the Blessed Realm (like Bilbo, Frodo, Sam and Gimli) find peace, bliss and healing for a short time, before they lay down their lives willingly and go withersoever they are doomed to go. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

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08-16-2002, 08:55 PM	#2
Liviaine Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Ithilien Posts: 203	Actually, I think that the Grey Havens and the Undying Lands are 2 different places. Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam went because they bore the Ring. Gandalf is one of the Maiar, so he was kind of sent from the Valar. I'm not sure about the plural and singular of Maia and Vala or whatever. Some elves stayed for the beginning of the 4th age but eventually went to the Undying Lands, like Legolas. I guess the ones that stayed in Middle-Earth, like Arwen, eventually became mortal and died.

08-17-2002, 02:30 PM	#7
Sanna Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kansas Posts: 20	Oh, okay. I understand much more clearly now. Thanks for the help. Sanna