Could ANYONE have willingly destroyed the Ring?

[Harad]

This is a tough question that requires thought about the whole book and maybe even other writings.

We are told about 2 people in LOTR history that had the opportunity to destroy the Ring, and neither did. These are Ilsidur and Frodo. I have my opinions why.

But could anyone--either in the same position as these 2--or in completely different positions--willingly destroy the Ring by dropping it or causing it to be dropped into the Cracks of Doom? This includes, of course, Bilbo, Sam, Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, Faramir, Ghan Bari Ghan--you name it.

BTW, Tom Bombadil doesnt count, because he would never go to the Cracks of Doom.

[Elfhelm]

Sam could have, if Frodo had passed out. That's the whole point of the Last Temptation of Samwise, isn't it? Plain hobbit sense conquers all. Frodo was exhausted and mentally weakened by physical torture and the Wound.

[Elf Girl]

I think it depends on how long you've had the Ring. Frodo could have, if someone had handed it to him at the Cracks of Doom for the first time and said, "here, destroy this". Of course, Isildur didn't, but I think a hobbit could.

[Khamûl]

I agree with Elfhelm and Elf Girl. It would depend on how long they had had the Ring and the strength of their character. If you handed most anyone the Ring at the Cracks of Doom, they could probably destroy it. Sam might have been able to destroy it by himself if Frodo hadn't been able to make it all the way to Mount Doom. Gandalf might have been able to resist the temptation to put on the Ring long enough to destroy it, as would Aragorn. But, the longer they had the Ring, the less likely they would be to destroy it. I believe that few could be strong enough to destroy it. What about Beorn? Perhaps he would be like Tom Bombadil and indifferent to what happened to the Ring. He might be able to do it. Treebeard might also be able to destroy the Ring, since he was around before it was forged and he probably has enough self control to resist the Ring. But, that's just my opinion.

[Elvet]

I agree with Elf Girl. I think a hobbit could give up the ring, but the longer they have it ( and especially if they used it), the harder it would be.
I'd like to think that Aragorn would be strong enough to destroy it. He certainly had a healthy respect for its powers. He was strong enough to use the palantir to his advantage.
I think the corruption is tied to the bearers need for power and control. Gandalf knew his wish to control evil in M-E would be corrupted. Galadriel sensed that her power would be affected and corrupted. Maybe that's why the hobbits are so resistent - they have no drive for control or power. They are happy and complacent in their world.

[Menelvagor]

Harad, you come up with some good discussion questions.

Technically, anyone with more power than Sauron could out-will the Ring; that would be the Valar and some Maiar (i.e. - Gandalf the White). Another thought: evil cannot create, it can only corrupt, thus Morgoth could not create orcs, he had to corrupt elves. The Ring is evil, and therefore it cannot create either. There must be some lust for power (that is how the Ring evades destruction in all the known instances) within yourself for the Ring to corrupt you to seek to claim it. Tom Bombadil had no wish for power so the Ring did not affect him, and hobbits (well, most hobbits) have very little lust for power and are affected less and more slowly, the Ring has less to work with, so to speak. So, the most likely candiates to destroy the Ring are those with little or no desire for power (power outside what power they already have, I guess I should say). That probably includes Beorn, possibly Cirdan (he gave up Narya) and hobbits. And anyone else you can think of.

A thought unrealated to this thread, but still interesting: The Ring kind of inderectly commited suicide when it let itself be picked up by Bilbo. Probably when it realized how uncorruptible hobbits were, it tried to prolong the time it spent with one hobbit bearer to give itself more time to work, maybe affecting Frodo’s delay in leaving the Shire.

[MasterMothra]

i think elrond would have destroyed the ring, given the chance. aragorn would probably have destroyed it too.

good topic.

[JenniferTook]

I don't think that anyone person in The Lord of the Rings could have willingly destroyed the ring who possessed the ring for any period of time. We all know Gandalf couldn't even possess it for fear of losing himself to it. Even Sam, when he possesses the ring, feels a little bit towards it as Frodo does. That is one way that he knows what his master is going through.

[Harad]

Many good points.

My question also includes the instance where the Ring is dropped by Frodo and Gollum beside the Crack of Doom and Gandalf, for example picks it up. Would he be INSTANTLY corrupted, or could he throw it in? Remember that Gandalf held the Ring at Bag End.

If Frodo hadnt been so weak due to the Morgul Wound, his uses of the Ring, and the terrible journey, would he have still succumbed at the end?

Was Isiildur INSTANTLY corrupted by the Ring, even tho he didnt use it? Can Isildur's actions be explained by his immense pride and (his words) a view of the Ring as "weregild" for the deaths of his father and brother?

Was Gollum INSTANTLY corrupted by the Ring or was he a corruptible sort willing to murder for a golden ring that wasnt magic?

[Strange-Looking Lurker]

I think that Gandalf would have destroyed it. He showed amazing self control when he didn't take it even when offered it. But remember what he said? "I would use this ring out of a desire to do good." And if he had the ring at the cracks of doom, the most good he could do would be to throw it in. Not that it wouldn't be hard, but he'd do it.

[azalea]

I agree, I think if Gandalf had been there and Frodo had dropped it, It might have taken all his will but I think he would have kicked it in or something. (I think Gollum would have jumped in after it anyway).
I think the point about the very powerful being corrupted more easily is true -- Isildur was also a man, and men were said to be very weak anyway.
I think if Gwihar had picked Frodo up at Bag End and dropped him at the Crack of Doom, Frodo would have had a little hesitation, but would have thrown it in.
Gollum was discussed a little in another thread, but my opinion is that he was a little nasty and greedy to begin with, and that the ring had a lot of power stored up that hadn't been used, it wanted to get back to it's master, and it sensed that Smeagol's nastiness would serve him better than Deagol. So it did focus all power on Smeagol, causing him to kill to posess it; since he was already nasty it wasn't much of a stretch. Unfortunately for the Ring, it didn't know that hobbits don't really care about power and Gollum was happier (if you can call it that) just being alone and eating fish and orcs in a cave.
That's just my opinion on the matter.

[Menelvagor]

the ring does not immediately turn people to evil, but it does immediately make them want to posses it. Isildur had had the ring maybe five minutes (correct me if that's wrong, my memory of that is a little fuzzy) when he claimed it as his 'wereguild,' Gollum saw the Ring and immediately killed Deagol, Bilbo lies to Gandalf and the dwarves in order to substantiate his claim on it. I agree that Gandalf could have, with difficulty pick it up and throw it in, but very few others could, but he was of equal or greater power than Sauron himself. Elrond probably could, being largely influenced by seeing first hand what happened with Isildur. Galadriel, maybe. Aragorn, with a LOT of struggle, maybe.

[Renille]

I don't know about the Gandalf-Galadriel theory...remember how strongly they protested about having anything to do with the ring? They knew how easily it could make them something totally different and super-powerful. I think that the more power you have already, the more easy it is for you to sucuumb to the ring's powers. So Sam, having little to no power, was willing to bear the ring without harm, like Frodo and Bilbo who both owned it for years with minimal effects.

Did anyone mention Bombadil yet? If he could step out of the woods, I'm almost positive he could destroy the thing. He could have cared less about the whole matter, though.

[Menelvagor]

I think the origional post excluded Bombadil. Hm, you have a point there, but I think Gandalf (Gandalf the White, mind you) could destroy the ring if he found it laying just beside the Sammath Naur. I think his biggest worry was that the temptation would've become too great because of the hardships he would go through (that's from The Shadow of the Past, when Frodo offers it to him). I think he would be able to destroy it if he only possessed it for a very short time.

[cassiopeia]

I don't think Beorn could have destroyed the ring cause he was a Man, and Isildur showed how weak Men are. I'm not sure how long Isildur had the ring maybe a few hours, but that was long enough for him not to destroy it. I think it depends on the race and duration of having the ring.

[Harad]

Don't cornfuse the movie with the book. I liked the movie a lot but it brought out themes that either were not in the book or were not emphasized in the book: specifically the weakness of Men. In the book Aragorn never shows weakness toward the Ring (or nearly anything else). Unlike Boromir he faithfully takes Frodo from Bree to Rivendell without the least bit of temptation to take the Ring. Likewise from Rivendell to Parth Galen.

There were Men like Boromir that were weaker than others. Some would put Isildur in that category but I would not. I think that Isildur was NOT corrupted magically by the Ring in 5 minutes. Rather he was a very prideful man and took the "weregild" idea seriously, not knowing that the Ring would LATER corrupt him. You dont need MAGIC to explain what Isildur did, just normal human emotions that could easily happen in the real world without a magic ring.

Likewise Gollum being brought to murder just by seeing the Ring, is to me another emotion from the real world. Only after using the Ring did the magic begin to work on Gollum.

I agree with most of what people say about the ones that would be strong enuf to destroy the Ring under the right circumstances.

There are some arguments that I will present next time however that go in the other direction.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Harad
Likewise Gollum being brought to murder just by seeing the Ring, is to me another emotion from the real world. Only after using the Ring did the magic begin to work on Gollum.

I think killing your friend is a bit to serious for a natural emotion. In that position, wanting it so strongly, I would try to steal it. He was probably corrupted at least some instantly.

[azalea]

I think the idea that it caused people to want to possess it instantly but didn't automatically corrupt is right, but I do think it corrupted very quickly those with power. Technically Boromir had more "power" than Aragorn during the journey -- by power I mean one holds a position that influences many people. At that point Aragorn did not have that position, whereas Boromir did. I think Beorn was different in that he wished to stay out of others' affairs and be "alone" (no desire for power/ domination of others) but at the same time he did wish to dominate his enemies and destroy them. I think he would have refused the ring, but if he had it I think he would have had a little difficulty throwing it in. I wonder if Gwihar could have done it.

[Earniel]

Good discussion.

I don't think Gandalf would have had the strenght to destroy the ring. It seems the ring can influence people of power better. The ring seems to use one's own power against them. Gandalf was very powerful. I don't think he would have been able to endure the ring for very long.

Tom Bombadil might have destroyed but he lacked any desire to do so or to leave his land.

I think Gwaihir might have been able to destroy it too. But somehow eagles didn't want to meddle in the affairs of Men exept when things got really ugly.

I like the idea that the ring didn't turn his bearers to evil immediately. What it did was influence them so they would protect the ring, without even realising it. Giving time this desire to protect the ring would turn into a desire to keep the ring and eventually to use it. And that would have been the beginning of the end so to speak. What do you think?

[cassiopeia]

I agree with your last paragraph, Earniel.
Aragorn was "higher" than Boromir and Boromir perhaps was also influenced by Denethor, so maybe thats why he became corrupted by the ring.
I think you can be corrupted by the ring immediatly, like Bilbo was when he found it but didn't tell the dwarves straight away about it.
Gollum already had a evil heart, so he murdered his friend for the ring, which was already corrupting him.
Even the wise didn't want to touch the ring because they knew the effect of it.