What happend to the old elf dwellings?

[Sicirus]

I know there might not be a exact answer for this question but after the elves who wanted to stay immortal left Middle Earth
What happend to Lorien, Green wood, and Rivendell?

[Menelvagor]

I think Galadriel says somewhere that Lorien will fade and gradually become like other woods. That's probably what would happen to Mirkwood, too. The good fades and so does the evil (i.e.- smaller spiders). Rivendell I'm not sure about, but probably it would be the same as any ancient place, and just slowly fall down and be covered by grass. Interesting question!

[Menelvagor]

Oh, and welcome to the moot!

[AreteLaugh]

Legolas says in Hollin;
"There is a wholsome air in Hollin. Much evil must befall a counutrybefore it wholly forgets the Elves, if once they dwelt there.'"
This would might indicate that centers of elvishness (Rivendell, Lorien) would remain distinctly different even after a considerable amount of time had pasted.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

But would they be inhabited? And by who? I suppose after a while they would, but. . .

[Aragorn_iz_cool]

Well in the appendixes it says " but in lothlorien only a few of its former people lingered sadly" so I think it looks like other forest but has a few elves in it. When one of true hart comes walking in thire wood they show themselves, but make the person swere an oath never to tell anyone. Don't no how I got that idea but its something to think about.

[Earniel]

First of all Welcome!

Maybe some of the lesser elves moved in. Or maybe the queen had some one to look after Rivendell.

[Ñólendil]

The Forest of Greenleaves was not made more beautiful by the the Rings, I don't see why it would "fade". A few still lingered sadly in faded Lothlórien after the War of the Ring, I don't know how long the wood actually stood. Greenleaves was populated by Thranduil's folk (in the Woodland Realm in the North), Beornings & Woodman (in the mid-part of the forest) and Celeborn took a great part of the Lórien Elves into what was Southern Mirkwood, naming it anew East Lórien. Soon he wearied of it though and went to live with his grandsons Eladan and Elrohir in Rivendell.

In A Part of the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, Arwen or Aragorn (I don't remember which) mention Rivendell "where none now walk". This was said in IV 120, and Arwen also said that there was not "now" any ship to take her across the Sea. I suppose this means that by that year Rivendell was entirely deserted, which would mean that Celeborn had left. If there was no ship left to take Arwen, then perhaps it indicates that the last of the High Elves had finally left Middle-earth with CÃ*rdan and Celeborn.

[Menelvagor]

Somehow when I posted that the rings slipped my mind. I think Mirkwood/Greenwood would be different still, though, without elves. I think that elves would change a place even if it weren't enhanced by the elven rings, and conversely, the place would still react to their abscence. I have a question though, are the Mirkwood elves ever recorded as leaving?

(good points, btw, from the appendices )

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I think (and I do not really have evidence from the text to back it up, I'm just theorizing. . .) eventually the populations of men would grow, and move into those places formerly inhabited by the elves. And I think some hint of the elves would still remain, despite them being gone, though after a few more ages I suppose even that last trace of the elves would fade.

[Earniel]

Say Ñólendil, I can see you've earned your name. where DO you get all that info?

[Radagast The Brown]

what happened to the hobbits in the shire? where are they today???

[azalea]

I think Eruvial is right, that a hint of elves remains, and I believe the same about hobbits, because of Tolkeins descriptions in The Hobbit and the LotR Prologue:

"I suppose hobbits need some description nowadays, since they have become rare and shy of the Big People, as they call us."

"Hobbits are an unobtrusive but very ancient people, more numerous formerly than they are today...
Even in ancient days they were, as a rule, shy of 'the Big Folk', as they call us, and now they avoid us with dismay and are becoming hard to find."

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown what happened to the hobbits in the shire? where are they today???

I imagine they are still there, living quietly while everyone is compeletely unaware of there existence.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Let's go find the hobbits then!

On second thought, let's leave them alone. I don't think they would appreciate being disturbed.

[Ñólendil]

I have a question though, are the Mirkwood elves ever recorded as leaving?

Not all of them. Grey-elves would always be taking ship, slowly, one by one. The other Wood-elves would not, I think. The ones of Nandorin blood don't seem to have any desire to go into the West, and some of the Wood-elves had Avarin blood. The Avari could not go into the West, their ancestors had made the choice to stay.

The Elves that didn't leave would eventually fade and be invisable to mortal eyes, or they would die somehow.

Say Ñólendil, I can see you've earned your name. where DO you get all that info?

Oh, I don't mean to imply any great knowledge by my name. When it was given to me -- and I use it that way -- I mean only to say that I am always seeking knowledge. How much I've found is an entirely different matter.

What I said in the post you're referring to is from the Appendices of the Lord of the Rings.

A few still lingered sadly in faded Lothlórien after the War of the Ring, I don't know how long the wood actually stood.

This is derived from a single sentence in the last page of Appendix B (in my copy):

In the Greenwood the Silvan Elves remained untroubled, but in Lórien there lingered sadly only a few of its former people, and there was no longer light or song in Caras Galadhon.

Greenleaves was populated by Thranduil's folk (in the Woodland Realm in the North), Beornings & Woodman (in the mid-part of the forest) and Celeborn took a great part of the Lórien Elves into what was Southern Mirkwood, naming it anew East Lórien. Soon he wearied of it though and went to live with his grandsons Eladan and Elrohir in Rivendell.

This is from the same page:

And on the day of the New Year of the Elves, Celeborn and Thranduil met in the midst of the forest; and they renamed Mirkwood Eryn Lasgalen, The Wood of Greenleaves. Thranduil took all the northern region as far as the mountains that rise in the forest for his realm; and Celeborn took all the southern wood below the Narrows, and named it East Lórien; all the wide forest between was given to the Beornings and the Woodmen. But after the passing of Galadriel in a few years Celeborn grew weary of his realm and went to Imladris to dwell with the sons of Elrond.

My paragraph about Rivendell in the Fourth Age is from Appendix A, I The Númenorean Kings, (v)Here Follows A Part Of The Tale Of Aragorn And Arwen. At the end of the story Aragorn is laying down his life:

'As Queen of Elves and Men she dwelt with Aragorn for six-score years in great glory and bliss; yet at last he felt the approach of old age and knew that the span of his life-days was drawing to an end, long though it had been. Then Aragorn said to Arwen:

' "At last, Lady Evenstar, fairest in this world, and most beloved, my world is fading. Lo! we have gathered, and we have spent, and now the time of payment draws near."

'Arwen knew well what he intended, and long had foreseen it; nonetheless she was overborne by her grief. "Would you then, lord, before your time leave yor people that live by your word?" she said.

' "Not before my time," he answered. "For if I will not go now, then I must soon go perforce. And Eldarion our son is a man full-ripe for kingship."

'Then going to the House of the Kings in the Silent Street, Aragorn laid him down on the long bed that had been prepared for him. There se said darewell to Eldarion, and gave in his hands the winged crown of Gondor and the sceptre of Arnor; and then all left him save Arwen, and she stood alone by his bed. And for all her wisdom and lineage she could not forbear to plead with him to stay yet for a while. She was not yet weary of her days, and thus she tasted the bitterness of the mortality that she had taken upon her.

' "Lady Undómiel," said Aragorn, "the hour is indeed hard, yet it was made even in that day when we met under the white birches in the garden of Elrond where none now walk. And on the hill of Cerin Amroth when we forsook both the Shadow and the Twilight this doom we accepted. Take counsel with yourself, beloved, and ask whether you would indeed have me wait until I wither and fall from my high seat unmanned and witless. Nay, lady, I am the last of the Númenoreans and the latest King of the Elder Days; and to me has been given not only a span thrice that of Men of Middle-earth, but also the grace to go at my will, and give back the gift. Now, therefore, I will sleep.

' "I speak no comfort to you, for there is no comfort for such pain within the circles of the world. The uttermost choice is before you: to repent and go to the Havens and bear away into the West the memory of our days together that shall there be evergreen but never more than memory; or else to abide the Doom of Men."

' "Nay, dear lore," she said, that choice is long over. There is now no ship that would bear me hence, and I must indeed abide the Doom of Men, whether I will or I nill: the loss and the silence. But I say to you, King of the Númenoreans, not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." ...

The story goes on, but that much explains my words.

what happened to the hobbits in the shire? where are they today???

"In the Northwest of the Old World, east of the Sea.", -- Prologue. In the Appendix to the Disaster of the Gladden Fields ("Númenorean Linnear Measurements") published in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien writes that

The dwindling of the Dúnedain [in height] was not a normal tendency, shared by peoples whose proper home was Middle-earth; but due to the loss of their ancient land far in the West, nearest of all mortal lands to the Undying Realm. The much later dwindling of hobbits must be due to a change in their state and way of life; they became a fugitive and secret people, driven (as Men, the Big Folk, became more and more numerous, usurping the more fertil and habitable lands) to refuge in forest or wilderness: a wandering and poor folk, forgetful of their arts, living a precarious life absorbed in the search for food, and fearful of being seen.

The note serves to explain a vague comment in the prologue, its something like "The hobbits were between two and four feet, but they have dwindled somewhat, and in older days they were taller". The idea is that during the time of The Lord of the Rings hobbits were between three and four feet "never less and seldom more.". It was later that they could be seen standing only two feet tall.

[Earniel]

Thanks! I definately need another reread.....

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Not all of them. Grey-elves would always be taking ship, slowly, one by one. The other Wood-elves would not, I think. The ones of Nandorin blood don't seem to have any desire to go into the West, and some of the Wood-elves had Avarin blood. The Avari could not go into the West, their ancestors had made the choice to stay.

That is not correct. After the War of Wrath, Eonwe (the herald of Manwe) went throughout Middle-earth, summoning all Elves to take ship over Sea once again. The Avari and Nandor, from whom came the Silvan Elves, therefore had the right to sail over Sea. And many of them did so. They set sail from Edhellond rather than Mithlond.

A large number of Silvan Elves fled Middle-earth after the Dwarves were defeated by the Balrog in Khazad-dum.

[Sicirus]

Thanks everyone who answered my question. Sorry I did not stay on long I am only aloud to stay on line for 30 minutes.


'' My name is Sicirus soon changing it to Celebcu. But please still do not ask me where I came up with that name.''

[Menelvagor]

Thanks from me too.