The hobbits comming to ME

Arat-Falathion · 04-16-2002, 04:19 PM

I can not remember to have read this anywhere, so it has been bugging me...
I remember clearly how dwarves, elves and humans came to middle earth... but when and how were the hobbits created? and in which book is this mentioned??
Maybe I was reading Silmarillion half asleap at some points, but I find it odd that I missed this!

- Falathion

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-16-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arat-Falathion
I can not remember to have read this anywhere, so it has been bugging me...
I remember clearly how dwarves, elves and humans came to middle earth... but when and how were the hobbits created? and in which book is this mentioned??
Maybe I was reading Silmarillion half asleap at some points, but I find it odd that I missed this!

- Falathion

There is no mention of Hobbits in Quenta Silmarillion. They are briefly mentioned in "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" refering to the Halflings, or Periannath. It also says that until the passing of the ring into their land, they were of small account to Men and Elves. I believe they were considered to be of the race of Men, and seem to be a secluded people and took no part in matters outside their own realm. So, they probably had little to contribute in the history before the Ring.

Elfhelm · 04-16-2002, 08:13 PM

Prof Tolkien wrote something in a letter, let me paraphrase it: Isn't it good to leave some things as a mystery?

Since The Silmarillion is ostensibly by elves for elves, and the Numenorians basically only kept elven lore and their geneologies, there wasn't much beyond "old wive's tales" about the Hobbits. And we of later years know that "old wive's tales" are the remnants of the oral tradition. So we are led to understand, I think, that the Hobbits arrived inconspicuously and went unnoticed by many for years - thankfully!

Another angle we could take on this is "When did JRRT decide to add Hobbits to Middle Earth?" In Lost Tales we have elves living in a cottage that you have to shrink to enter. They refer to the Noldor as gnomes. The orcs, old english for ogres, were renamed from the earlier goblins. It's clear that at first the Prof was planning to write fairy tales using a Grimm's Bros sort of bestiary of faerie. Over time, however, his elves became more Nordic. We can find early references to a green man, like Tom Bombadil, and he lived near barrows called Wayland's Smithy. So can we find that sort of genesis for Hobbits? I mean, a writer's genesis, if you catch my drift.

Arat-Falathion · 04-17-2002, 08:34 AM

...so the hobbits comming to Middle Earth is indeed a mystery! very well then

Elf Girl · 04-21-2002, 02:39 PM

I think that they're mutated Elves, because they are very strong, Ring-wise, stronger then Men or Dwarves.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-21-2002, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I think that they're mutated Elves, because they are very strong, Ring-wise, stronger then Men or Dwarves.

Hobbits are Men.

Elf Girl · 04-21-2002, 07:40 PM

Where did you learn this?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-21-2002, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Where did you learn this?

HoMe.

Ñólendil · 04-21-2002, 07:56 PM

And they are called "a diminutive Race of Man" in letters a few times. Also, Tolkien says they are akin to us in the Prologue.

Elf Girl · 04-22-2002, 08:47 AM

Ah. No wonder. I haven't read HomE.

Cirdan · 04-23-2002, 12:05 PM

Since elves and dwarfs were borrowed from other works, it makes sense to create a detailed history of the previously 2D beings. The hobbit, being a unique creation, would need added "mystery" to make them fit well with the other mythical beings. speculation...

stormcrow · 04-25-2002, 05:50 AM

Hobbits are usually refered to as "halflings." Is it possible that they are a half-breed between men and some other race? Purely speculating, they could have some dwarvish or elvish blood, or some combination or all three.

Cirdan · 04-25-2002, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stormcrow
Hobbits are usually refered to as "halflings." Is it possible that they are a half-breed between men and some other race? Purely speculating, they could have some dwarvish or elvish blood, or some combination or all three.

...maybe dwaves since they are short and hairy and live underground...

Kirinki54 · 04-29-2002, 05:11 PM

Prologue, LotR says:

Quote:

It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even
than Dwarves. Of old they spoke the languages of Men, after their own fashion, and liked and disliked much the same things as Men did. But what exactly our relationship is can no longer be discovered. The beginning of Hobbits lies far back in the Elder Days that are now lost and forgotten.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-29-2002, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirinki54
Prologue, LotR says:

Where were they when Beren and Finrod needed them?

Hi Kirinki. Don't be such a stranger.

bropous · 04-30-2002, 09:27 PM

Yuppers, Hobbits is men. Tolkien says so in the Letters, Nolendil and Sister Golden Hair have it right on the money once again. No suprise there.

Ñólendil · 05-01-2002, 05:55 PM

Bah. The old woman's just learned a few tricks from me, the glory is all mine.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 05-01-2002, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ñólendil
Bah. The old woman's just learned a few tricks from me, the glory is all mine.

Excuse me little elf boy. I have been reading Tolkien longer than you have been alive. Heeheehee.

Cirdan · 05-02-2002, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Excuse me little elf boy. I have been reading Tolkien longer than you have been alive. Heeheehee.

Nice burn

*another "old fogey"*

Kirinki54 · 05-02-2002, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Where were they when Beren and Finrod needed them?

Hi Kirinki. Don't be such a stranger.

Hi Sister Golden Hair!

I do feel like a stranger, have been gone for months. Of course there are a few familiar people so, hi all of you too!

PS Sister, how on ME did you get more than 60000 posts?

04-16-2002, 04:19 PM	#1
Arat-Falathion A'mael Dalharen Eldarele Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 707	The hobbits comming to ME I can not remember to have read this anywhere, so it has been bugging me... I remember clearly how dwarves, elves and humans came to middle earth... but when and how were the hobbits created? and in which book is this mentioned?? Maybe I was reading Silmarillion half asleap at some points, but I find it odd that I missed this! - Falathion __________________ Atharon, where heroes are born. A constantly evolving forum rpg created by Lief Erikson, Falathion and its players.

04-16-2002, 08:13 PM	#3
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Prof Tolkien wrote something in a letter, let me paraphrase it: Isn't it good to leave some things as a mystery? Since The Silmarillion is ostensibly by elves for elves, and the Numenorians basically only kept elven lore and their geneologies, there wasn't much beyond "old wive's tales" about the Hobbits. And we of later years know that "old wive's tales" are the remnants of the oral tradition. So we are led to understand, I think, that the Hobbits arrived inconspicuously and went unnoticed by many for years - thankfully! Another angle we could take on this is "When did JRRT decide to add Hobbits to Middle Earth?" In Lost Tales we have elves living in a cottage that you have to shrink to enter. They refer to the Noldor as gnomes. The orcs, old english for ogres, were renamed from the earlier goblins. It's clear that at first the Prof was planning to write fairy tales using a Grimm's Bros sort of bestiary of faerie. Over time, however, his elves became more Nordic. We can find early references to a green man, like Tom Bombadil, and he lived near barrows called Wayland's Smithy. So can we find that sort of genesis for Hobbits? I mean, a writer's genesis, if you catch my drift. __________________ cya Last edited by Elfhelm : 04-16-2002 at 08:16 PM.

04-17-2002, 08:34 AM	#4
Arat-Falathion A'mael Dalharen Eldarele Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Norway Posts: 707	...so the hobbits comming to Middle Earth is indeed a mystery! very well then __________________ Atharon, where heroes are born. A constantly evolving forum rpg created by Lief Erikson, Falathion and its players.

04-21-2002, 02:39 PM	#5
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	I think that they're mutated Elves, because they are very strong, Ring-wise, stronger then Men or Dwarves. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

04-21-2002, 07:40 PM	#7
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Where did you learn this? __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

04-21-2002, 07:56 PM	#9
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	And they are called "a diminutive Race of Man" in letters a few times. Also, Tolkien says they are akin to us in the Prologue. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

04-22-2002, 08:47 AM	#10
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Ah. No wonder. I haven't read HomE. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

04-23-2002, 12:05 PM	#11
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	Since elves and dwarfs were borrowed from other works, it makes sense to create a detailed history of the previously 2D beings. The hobbit, being a unique creation, would need added "mystery" to make them fit well with the other mythical beings. speculation... __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

04-25-2002, 05:50 AM	#12
stormcrow Sapling Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6	Hobbits are usually refered to as "halflings." Is it possible that they are a half-breed between men and some other race? Purely speculating, they could have some dwarvish or elvish blood, or some combination or all three.

04-30-2002, 09:27 PM	#16
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Yuppers, Hobbits is men. Tolkien says so in the Letters, Nolendil and Sister Golden Hair have it right on the money once again. No suprise there. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

05-01-2002, 05:55 PM	#17
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Bah. The old woman's just learned a few tricks from me, the glory is all mine. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

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