Relativism VS. Absoulte

CardenIAntauraNauco · 03-11-2002, 09:49 PM

What do you believe about morals? Are they only something society came up with or a they an intrensic set of laws outside of the human mind?

Wayfarer · 03-11-2002, 09:52 PM

I'm an absolutist.

As far as relativism goes, I'll offer you this quandry:

So and so (at this point I insert the name of some female) is really hot, but she doesn't like me. So I figure I'm going to kidnap her, lock hir in my closet with some food, and raper her whenever I feel like it. Then I'll kill her and walk away with a clear conscience.

(listens to expressions of revulsion)

Hey, I'm not saying it was right for you, but it felt right to me. That's all that counts, isn't it?

Nibs · 03-11-2002, 09:55 PM

I suppose what you mean is which do you believe you practice... I'd have to say absolute. Very much absolute. Nothing but absolute. Absolutely absolute.

CardenIAntauraNauco · 03-11-2002, 09:57 PM

I suppose I should have said already

I am an absolutist

Ararax · 03-11-2002, 10:10 PM

absolute but imho it dosnt matter cause... oh well im not getting into that one

markedel · 03-11-2002, 10:48 PM

ah ethics...always an enjoyable subjct..and a source of hot burning flames...

Ararax · 03-11-2002, 10:50 PM

flameing wars are fun, but i heard i could get banned for flameing here

Wayfarer · 03-11-2002, 10:55 PM

I hate it when people ignore my rhetoric.

Ararax · 03-11-2002, 10:58 PM

then its probably an complex, personally i couldnt care less if people ignore my posts cause i think half of them are garbage anyway

emplynx · 03-11-2002, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayfarer
So and so (at this point I insert the name of some female) is really hot, but she doesn't like me. So I figure I'm going to kidnap her, lock hir in my closet with some food, and raper her whenever I feel like it. Then I'll kill her and walk away with a clear conscience.

An excellent scenerio. I agree 100%

Ararax · 03-11-2002, 11:09 PM

well i would say if your freedom interferes with someones elses freedom then its a fight and the winner chooses the rules

FrodoFriend · 03-12-2002, 12:00 AM

Morals are something the human mind came up with. They don't exist outside of society, in Nature.

However, I believe any functioning code of morals must have certain absolutes, such as a repugnance for killing and causing pain.

In effect, it's a mix of relativism and absolutism.

Absolutism: Any society with a moral code that promotes killing and "might is right" will end up deteriorating or being squashed by more "righteous" codes. Hence, it is in the interest of not only the people, but also the morality itself, to outlaw killing/raping/etc.

Relativism: Some Hindus believe that eating beef is a sin. We don't. Are we immoral? I, at least, don't think so (even though I'm a vegetarian). Stuff like this is relative.

Like most things, this is an in-betweener.

Ararax · 03-12-2002, 12:15 AM

its absolutly relative.
really so your saying relativity is absolute?

FrodoFriend · 03-12-2002, 12:18 AM

Yes, it's relative. Nothing is absolutely right or wrong.

But some things have to be absolutely present (in other words, they have to appear in every moral code) in order for them to be accepted. Moral codes are designed to provide stability, and they can't do that if they allow all sorts of violence.

I hope that makes sense.

Ararax · 03-12-2002, 12:28 AM

there are absolutes
i exist that is one

FrodoFriend · 03-12-2002, 12:36 AM

Yeah, but you're not a moral code. You have a moral code, but it's not absolute, since there are other ones out there.

afro-elf · 03-12-2002, 12:58 AM

I don't believe that killing is innately wrong

lifes feeds on life there is NO way around that

so if you don't eat you die

If someone is attempt to kill me, or those i care, or my fellow mooters here i have no qualms about taking life

I hate those peace mongers and much as war mongers

any human who would not kill to save their child or spouse, or parents is NOT a human being for me

siblings are optional

FrodoFriend · 03-12-2002, 01:01 AM

Nothing is innately wrong.

But a society's moral code in general has to be against violence and killing in order to remain stability.

Arathorn · 03-12-2002, 04:07 AM

yeah A-E, the only beings who naturally don't kill for food are plants and perhaps mushrooms; althoug it is now possible to eat without killing. Just let someone else do the killing for you. I'll get a burger and fries.

BTW, A-E, have you heard of balut from any of your filipino friends there? They're delicious but probably revolting to the other people here.

emplynx · 03-12-2002, 08:30 AM

Because I believe in the Bible, I don't believe that morals were created by mankind. I believe that they were created in mankind by God. But I can't argue this point with anyone unless they also believe in the Bible.

03-11-2002, 09:49 PM	#1
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	Relativism VS. Absoulte What do you believe about morals? Are they only something society came up with or a they an intrensic set of laws outside of the human mind? __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

03-11-2002, 09:52 PM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I'm an absolutist. As far as relativism goes, I'll offer you this quandry: So and so (at this point I insert the name of some female) is really hot, but she doesn't like me. So I figure I'm going to kidnap her, lock hir in my closet with some food, and raper her whenever I feel like it. Then I'll kill her and walk away with a clear conscience. (listens to expressions of revulsion) Hey, I'm not saying it was right for you, but it felt right to me. That's all that counts, isn't it? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 03-11-2002 at 09:58 PM.

03-11-2002, 09:55 PM	#3
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	I suppose what you mean is which do you believe you practice... I'd have to say absolute. Very much absolute. Nothing but absolute. Absolutely absolute. __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

03-11-2002, 09:57 PM	#4
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	I suppose I should have said already I am an absolutist __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm. Last edited by CardenIAntauraNauco : 03-11-2002 at 09:58 PM.

03-11-2002, 10:10 PM	#5
Ararax Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY! Posts: 375	absolute but imho it dosnt matter cause... oh well im not getting into that one __________________ Woah Deep

03-11-2002, 10:48 PM	#6
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	ah ethics...always an enjoyable subjct..and a source of hot burning flames... __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

03-11-2002, 10:50 PM	#7
Ararax Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY! Posts: 375	flameing wars are fun, but i heard i could get banned for flameing here __________________ Woah Deep

03-11-2002, 10:55 PM	#8
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I hate it when people ignore my rhetoric. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

03-11-2002, 10:58 PM	#9
Ararax Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY! Posts: 375	then its probably an complex, personally i couldnt care less if people ignore my posts cause i think half of them are garbage anyway __________________ Woah Deep

03-11-2002, 11:09 PM	#11
Ararax Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY! Posts: 375	well i would say if your freedom interferes with someones elses freedom then its a fight and the winner chooses the rules __________________ Woah Deep

03-12-2002, 12:00 AM	#12
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Morals are something the human mind came up with. They don't exist outside of society, in Nature. However, I believe any functioning code of morals must have certain absolutes, such as a repugnance for killing and causing pain. In effect, it's a mix of relativism and absolutism. Absolutism: Any society with a moral code that promotes killing and "might is right" will end up deteriorating or being squashed by more "righteous" codes. Hence, it is in the interest of not only the people, but also the morality itself, to outlaw killing/raping/etc. Relativism: Some Hindus believe that eating beef is a sin. We don't. Are we immoral? I, at least, don't think so (even though I'm a vegetarian). Stuff like this is relative. Like most things, this is an in-betweener. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-12-2002, 12:15 AM	#13
Ararax Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY! Posts: 375	its absolutly relative. really so your saying relativity is absolute? __________________ Woah Deep

03-12-2002, 12:18 AM	#14
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Yes, it's relative. Nothing is absolutely right or wrong. But some things have to be absolutely present (in other words, they have to appear in every moral code) in order for them to be accepted. Moral codes are designed to provide stability, and they can't do that if they allow all sorts of violence. I hope that makes sense. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-12-2002, 12:28 AM	#15
Ararax Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NEW JERSEY! Posts: 375	there are absolutes i exist that is one __________________ Woah Deep

03-12-2002, 12:36 AM	#16
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Yeah, but you're not a moral code. You have a moral code, but it's not absolute, since there are other ones out there. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-12-2002, 12:58 AM	#17
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I don't believe that killing is innately wrong lifes feeds on life there is NO way around that so if you don't eat you die If someone is attempt to kill me, or those i care, or my fellow mooters here i have no qualms about taking life I hate those peace mongers and much as war mongers any human who would not kill to save their child or spouse, or parents is NOT a human being for me siblings are optional __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-12-2002, 01:01 AM	#18
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Nothing is innately wrong. But a society's moral code in general has to be against violence and killing in order to remain stability. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-12-2002, 04:07 AM	#19
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	yeah A-E, the only beings who naturally don't kill for food are plants and perhaps mushrooms; althoug it is now possible to eat without killing. Just let someone else do the killing for you. I'll get a burger and fries. BTW, A-E, have you heard of balut from any of your filipino friends there? They're delicious but probably revolting to the other people here. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... Last edited by Arathorn : 03-12-2002 at 04:23 AM.

03-12-2002, 08:30 AM	#20
emplynx Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,214	Because I believe in the Bible, I don't believe that morals were created by mankind. I believe that they were created in mankind by God. But I can't argue this point with anyone unless they also believe in the Bible.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
I'm writing an essay on relativism in LOTR	IronParrot	Lord of the Rings Books	152	02-11-2005 05:38 PM