Aragorn's girls (Arwen,Eowyn)

Aragorns Dimple · 02-25-2002, 08:53 PM

I've been debating this with myself for a while now, but why did Aragorn choose Arwen over Eowyn?

In the book his relationship with Arwen is only really explained in very broad brushstrokes, we never really get an insight into why he was so enamoured of her, apart from thinking that she was actually Luthien Tinuviel when he first saw/met her. We all know that Aragorn was dumped on Elrond as a child, so surely he grew up with only brotherly/sisterly feelings for Arwen, even though he didn't meet her until later? What was so special about her, apart from her being foxy? Did she share his interests in forest roving, etc? Did she ever hunt or kill Orc? Was she a skilled archer/swordswoman? Why did she sit at home at Rivendell during the War of the Ring and do nothing? (in the book, anyway)What on Middle Earth did they have in common? And if they were to marry he would be condemning her to spend the rest of her immortal life in mourning for him after he died - now that's a bad trip he didn't wish her take.

Eowyn, on the other hand, had grown up in an environment of macho manliness, and was a skilled shieldmaiden. She was not afraid to go into battle, and was prepared to follow Aragorn and lay down her life for him if he had asked her to. She was also very foxy, and of noble birth, and a human like him, so surely she would have more things going on in her favour for Aragorn than the She-elf. A marriage with Eowyn would have made much sense for the future King, as this would guarantee future alliances and peace with the Rohirrim, whereas the Elves were leaving for the West anyway, so there would be no alliance advantage in marrying one. It's also a fact that many humans had had NO contact with Elves at all, and would perhaps view her with distrust and suspicion (as an outsider), and never accept her as their Queen.

I realise now that this is part of the reason PJ has 'beefed up' Arwen's character in the movie and included her in some battles, as nobody in their right mind would believe that Aragorn would go off and save the world by himself, then summon the stay-at-home Daddy's Girl DOORMAT to marry him. Uh-uh, just doesn't add up.

Anyone else have an opinion on this, as the book version left me feeling rather perplexed about Aragorn's choice of wife.

markedel · 02-25-2002, 09:27 PM

Arwen was the evenstar of her people-the most beautiful elf-maiden left on middle earth, as beautiful as galadriel with lineage to match. Eowyn is a rohirric noblewome. It's like comparing apples to to brussel srpouts. Eowyn is pretty and strong and all, but her nobility is far lower then Arwen.

Besides it's part of Aragron's renwer personality-renews numenorian kingship, kingdom, and blood all at once.

mirrille · 02-26-2002, 12:09 AM

That's right. Arwen and Eowyn are two completely different styles. Like I've said before, no archery/sword/forest-roving skills does not equal stay-at-home Daddy's Girl doormat. She could have other ways of being impressive. In comparison to Eowyn, Arwen is supposed to have more unearthly beauty. She is also much older, has seen more of the world (after all, she's an elf!) and has that legendary wisdom and inner power that all elves of her bloodline (much older and more prestigious than Eowyn's) are reputed to have, which also grows stronger with age, not to mention a little bit of elf-magic. My guess is this: upon meeting the two of them,you would admire Eowyn for everything she is and has done, even more because in a way she is so down-to-earth. You would be in awe of Arwen for the beautiful wise creature she is, but mostly because that kind of beauty and wisdom is too good to be true. The way people talk about Arwen, it makes it sound like she has quite an aura, much like Galadriel.
Aragorn supposedly loved Arwen from a long time ago. They already have a bond. It's not very good to see the noble king as being easily seduced. And I'd hardly like to see Eowyn portrayed as the "other woman".

I always assumed that she didn't know he was already attached. She is not the man-stealing type. She has too much pride.

Arathorn · 02-26-2002, 02:28 AM

Being around for millenia, I'd figure she was able to push the right buttons of this 70 yr old kid; not to mention she must have been really beautiful.

From Aragorn's POV, it must seem like falling in love with you're childhood-crush/babysitter except that she looks the same when you're old enough as when you were a kid.

aldesign · 02-26-2002, 01:01 PM

Its as simple as this:

Aragorn was a Traditionalist: He'd rather have a girly girl.

Than a modern Woman.

(this however is not my point of view, so dont go all sexist on me)

andy

Foul_Dwimmerlaik · 02-26-2002, 01:42 PM

He fell in love with Arwen decades before he ever met Eowyn. Had things worked out differently, he may have indeed fallen for the steely sheildmaiden (sidenote: I would have smote her big-time if not for the midget sneak attack). Their marriage would have been politically convenient in the long run (after the third age Rohan was a more powerful force than the Elves), but Eomer took care of that by hooking up with Dol Amroth and the eventual Faramir "I don't mind sloppy seconds" and Eowyn thing.

Laurelyn · 02-26-2002, 01:50 PM

Yeah . . pretty much what everybody else has said. Also, Aragorn was already in love with Arwen when he met Eowyn. That love would also play a part is his decision, for if he loved her, and she was willing to forsake immortality for him, it would not only break his heart to leave her, it would make him a lot of enemies. *coughElrondcough*So why do that?

Later edit: This was my 500th post! I'm now an Elf Lord! Yahoo!! Ok, so nobody cares . . . too bad for me. I'm happy anyways.

***Earniel*** · 02-26-2002, 02:35 PM

CONGRATULATIONS, LAURELYN!!!!!

Did I type that right? well probably....

As for the thread... Aragorn did a lot to win Arwen for him, it would have been pretty stupid of him to let her down in the end.

Besides Eowyn wasn't Numenorean, her life was probably a lot shorter than Aragorn's. Not such a good match then. Although considering this Arwen didn't get such a good end of the bargain either.

Some one mentioned the "childhood-crush/babysitter". I believe it was Arathorn...* checks* yes it was.. Wouldn't that have been the same for Aragorn and Eowyn then? Eowyn was much younger than Aragorn.

Arathorn · 02-26-2002, 02:43 PM

Yup Eärniel. But Aragorn was also the middle of the triangle of sorts and was pushed for time while in Rohan. He was also in quite an awkward situation on the way to the paths of the dead what with Arwen's 2 brothers around.

Comic Book Guy · 02-26-2002, 03:46 PM

Aragorn never met Arwen until his coming of age, he mistook her for Luthien.

Quote:

Being around for millenia, I'd figure she was able to push the right buttons of this 70 yr old kid

I believe she is 3,000 approx years old, while Aragorn is 87.

LuthienTinuviel · 02-26-2002, 05:02 PM

arwen was incredibly beuatiful, the likeness of Luthien put back on earth.

haha sloppy seconds.. funny..

the appendixes go more into it, but my other explination is:
ya can't explain LOVE

KGamgee · 02-26-2002, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laurelyn
Yeah . . pretty much what everybody else has said. Also, Aragorn was already in love with Arwen when he met Eowyn. That love would also play a part is his decision, for if he loved her, and she was willing to forsake immortality for him, it would not only break his heart to leave her, it would make him a lot of enemies. *coughElrondcough*So why do that?

Later edit: This was my 500th post! I'm now an Elf Lord! Yahoo!! Ok, so nobody cares . . . too bad for me. I'm happy anyways.

I definitely agree....plus he is a king...I know it isn't a reason to marry someone, but isn't it more traditional? Middle Earth is a different time and a different place...a lot more traditional than the world is now. Eowyn (my favorite girl in the books) is WAY ahead of her time. Good for her!

Laurelyn · 02-26-2002, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärniel
CONGRATULATIONS, LAURELYN!!!!!

Why thank you, Eärniel. And yes, you did type it right . . .
KGamgee, you have a point, Eowyn was rather ahead of her time, because the women of middle-earth were more the housewife type, to sit around and wait for their husband to return from war. I have nothing against that, though!

olsonm · 02-26-2002, 09:10 PM

I like what everyone has said(though, Ol'Dwimmey's got to stop blaming his own shortcomings on midgets

)

The quick and short of it is that Aragorn never loved Eowyn, so there never was a choice really.

Aragorns Dimple · 02-27-2002, 06:45 AM

Some great opinions here. I guess when you put a saucy, worldly, but demure She-Elf up against an extraordinary and unusually fiesty Strawhead chick *sigh*, Aragorn should pick the tame one! Plus it's true, he wouldn't want to p**s Elrond off....
*watches Elrond morph into Agent Smith* AIIIIII!!!!!!!
Thanks for the insights, peeples

Eruviel Greenleaf · 02-28-2002, 01:30 AM

Well, I have another question, since this wasn't really explained in the books either...
Why did Arwen fall for Aragorn? I mean, it's been proved here that Aragorn had his reasons, but why did Arwen fall in love with him? Sure, he's a noble Numenorean, and future king of Gondor, but that's just polotics. Besides, he's much younger, and human, not elf. Can anyone figure that one out? I'd sure like to know.

Arathorn · 02-28-2002, 01:46 AM

Good question. Aragorn's 39 or so grandfathers didn't measure up, I suppose? Maybe he kept asking her for 40 days and 40 nights or maybe she was a diehard Luthien & Beren fan and he got hold of this info before he made his move. It's fun to speculate.

Ñólendil · 02-28-2002, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Well, I have another question, since this wasn't really explained in the books either...
Why did Arwen fall for Aragorn? I mean, it's been proved here that Aragorn had his reasons, but why did Arwen fall in love with him? Sure, he's a noble Numenorean, and future king of Gondor, but that's just polotics. Besides, he's much younger, and human, not elf. Can anyone figure that one out? I'd sure like to know.

Is any explanation required, or even good enough, when it's love? Arwen fell in love with Aragorn. That has nothing to do with politics as you say. I don't see how it can have much else to do with much else we could put into words. Looks, power, money, material benefits. None of it has anything to say for love, I think. They fell in love and that's enough, I say. I bet if she had a choice she would take the less painful way and not love the guy. It would be so much easier. She just loved him and she couldn't change that.

luinilwen · 02-28-2002, 05:50 AM

as for arwen vs eowyn, i think you've all got it wrong. it's about the hair - gentlemen may prefer blondes, but kings prefer brunettes!

err ignore me...

Vinyafalasiel · 02-28-2002, 06:03 AM

i agree with everything that has been said...great POVs...though not much has been said about their story, it was said in one of the books that they spent a season together in lorien(appendix of return of the king, i think)...what they did we can only imagine

but they must surely have spent an awesome, unforgettable, amazingly romantic and incredible time together...though only for a season...it must have been enough to bond them together...LOVE LIVES!

02-25-2002, 08:53 PM	#1
Aragorns Dimple Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: On Viggo's Chin Posts: 77	Aragorn's girls (Arwen,Eowyn) I've been debating this with myself for a while now, but why did Aragorn choose Arwen over Eowyn? In the book his relationship with Arwen is only really explained in very broad brushstrokes, we never really get an insight into why he was so enamoured of her, apart from thinking that she was actually Luthien Tinuviel when he first saw/met her. We all know that Aragorn was dumped on Elrond as a child, so surely he grew up with only brotherly/sisterly feelings for Arwen, even though he didn't meet her until later? What was so special about her, apart from her being foxy? Did she share his interests in forest roving, etc? Did she ever hunt or kill Orc? Was she a skilled archer/swordswoman? Why did she sit at home at Rivendell during the War of the Ring and do nothing? (in the book, anyway)What on Middle Earth did they have in common? And if they were to marry he would be condemning her to spend the rest of her immortal life in mourning for him after he died - now that's a bad trip he didn't wish her take. Eowyn, on the other hand, had grown up in an environment of macho manliness, and was a skilled shieldmaiden. She was not afraid to go into battle, and was prepared to follow Aragorn and lay down her life for him if he had asked her to. She was also very foxy, and of noble birth, and a human like him, so surely she would have more things going on in her favour for Aragorn than the She-elf. A marriage with Eowyn would have made much sense for the future King, as this would guarantee future alliances and peace with the Rohirrim, whereas the Elves were leaving for the West anyway, so there would be no alliance advantage in marrying one. It's also a fact that many humans had had NO contact with Elves at all, and would perhaps view her with distrust and suspicion (as an outsider), and never accept her as their Queen. I realise now that this is part of the reason PJ has 'beefed up' Arwen's character in the movie and included her in some battles, as nobody in their right mind would believe that Aragorn would go off and save the world by himself, then summon the stay-at-home Daddy's Girl DOORMAT to marry him. Uh-uh, just doesn't add up. Anyone else have an opinion on this, as the book version left me feeling rather perplexed about Aragorn's choice of wife. __________________ "Is it nice, my preciousss? Is it juicy? Is it scrumptiously crunchable?" - Gollum

02-25-2002, 09:27 PM	#2
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Arwen was the evenstar of her people-the most beautiful elf-maiden left on middle earth, as beautiful as galadriel with lineage to match. Eowyn is a rohirric noblewome. It's like comparing apples to to brussel srpouts. Eowyn is pretty and strong and all, but her nobility is far lower then Arwen. Besides it's part of Aragron's renwer personality-renews numenorian kingship, kingdom, and blood all at once. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

02-26-2002, 02:28 AM	#4
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	Being around for millenia, I'd figure she was able to push the right buttons of this 70 yr old kid; not to mention she must have been really beautiful. From Aragorn's POV, it must seem like falling in love with you're childhood-crush/babysitter except that she looks the same when you're old enough as when you were a kid. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-26-2002, 01:01 PM	#5
aldesign Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Uk Posts: 447	Its as simple as this: Aragorn was a Traditionalist: He'd rather have a girly girl. Than a modern Woman. (this however is not my point of view, so dont go all sexist on me) andy __________________ The funniest story on the net, made by entmoot fanatics, visit it @ FOTMB.com FRODO LIVES!! GET FREE AVATARS HERE!

02-26-2002, 01:42 PM	#6
Foul_Dwimmerlaik Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 76	He fell in love with Arwen decades before he ever met Eowyn. Had things worked out differently, he may have indeed fallen for the steely sheildmaiden (sidenote: I would have smote her big-time if not for the midget sneak attack). Their marriage would have been politically convenient in the long run (after the third age Rohan was a more powerful force than the Elves), but Eomer took care of that by hooking up with Dol Amroth and the eventual Faramir "I don't mind sloppy seconds" and Eowyn thing. __________________ Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the lidless eye.

02-26-2002, 12:09 AM	#3
mirrille Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 479	That's right. Arwen and Eowyn are two completely different styles. Like I've said before, no archery/sword/forest-roving skills does not equal stay-at-home Daddy's Girl doormat. She could have other ways of being impressive. In comparison to Eowyn, Arwen is supposed to have more unearthly beauty. She is also much older, has seen more of the world (after all, she's an elf!) and has that legendary wisdom and inner power that all elves of her bloodline (much older and more prestigious than Eowyn's) are reputed to have, which also grows stronger with age, not to mention a little bit of elf-magic. My guess is this: upon meeting the two of them,you would admire Eowyn for everything she is and has done, even more because in a way she is so down-to-earth. You would be in awe of Arwen for the beautiful wise creature she is, but mostly because that kind of beauty and wisdom is too good to be true. The way people talk about Arwen, it makes it sound like she has quite an aura, much like Galadriel. Aragorn supposedly loved Arwen from a long time ago. They already have a bond. It's not very good to see the noble king as being easily seduced. And I'd hardly like to see Eowyn portrayed as the "other woman". I always assumed that she didn't know he was already attached. She is not the man-stealing type. She has too much pride.

02-26-2002, 01:50 PM	#7
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Yeah . . pretty much what everybody else has said. Also, Aragorn was already in love with Arwen when he met Eowyn. That love would also play a part is his decision, for if he loved her, and she was willing to forsake immortality for him, it would not only break his heart to leave her, it would make him a lot of enemies. coughElrondcoughSo why do that? Later edit: This was my 500th post! I'm now an Elf Lord! Yahoo!! Ok, so nobody cares . . . too bad for me. I'm happy anyways. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka Last edited by Laurelyn : 02-26-2002 at 01:52 PM.

02-26-2002, 02:35 PM	#8
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	CONGRATULATIONS, LAURELYN!!!!! Did I type that right? well probably.... As for the thread... Aragorn did a lot to win Arwen for him, it would have been pretty stupid of him to let her down in the end. Besides Eowyn wasn't Numenorean, her life was probably a lot shorter than Aragorn's. Not such a good match then. Although considering this Arwen didn't get such a good end of the bargain either. Some one mentioned the "childhood-crush/babysitter". I believe it was Arathorn...* checks* yes it was.. Wouldn't that have been the same for Aragorn and Eowyn then? Eowyn was much younger than Aragorn.

02-26-2002, 02:43 PM	#9
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	Yup Eärniel. But Aragorn was also the middle of the triangle of sorts and was pushed for time while in Rohan. He was also in quite an awkward situation on the way to the paths of the dead what with Arwen's 2 brothers around. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-26-2002, 05:02 PM	#11
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	arwen was incredibly beuatiful, the likeness of Luthien put back on earth. haha sloppy seconds.. funny.. the appendixes go more into it, but my other explination is: ya can't explain LOVE __________________

02-26-2002, 09:10 PM	#14
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	I like what everyone has said(though, Ol'Dwimmey's got to stop blaming his own shortcomings on midgets ) The quick and short of it is that Aragorn never loved Eowyn, so there never was a choice really. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

02-27-2002, 06:45 AM	#15
Aragorns Dimple Enting Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: On Viggo's Chin Posts: 77	Some great opinions here. I guess when you put a saucy, worldly, but demure She-Elf up against an extraordinary and unusually fiesty Strawhead chick sigh, Aragorn should pick the tame one! Plus it's true, he wouldn't want to p*s Elrond off.... watches Elrond morph into Agent Smith* AIIIIII!!!!!!! Thanks for the insights, peeples __________________ "Is it nice, my preciousss? Is it juicy? Is it scrumptiously crunchable?" - Gollum

02-28-2002, 01:30 AM	#16
Eruviel Greenleaf Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lyonesse Posts: 4,547	Well, I have another question, since this wasn't really explained in the books either... Why did Arwen fall for Aragorn? I mean, it's been proved here that Aragorn had his reasons, but why did Arwen fall in love with him? Sure, he's a noble Numenorean, and future king of Gondor, but that's just polotics. Besides, he's much younger, and human, not elf. Can anyone figure that one out? I'd sure like to know. __________________ Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK!

02-28-2002, 01:46 AM	#17
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	Good question. Aragorn's 39 or so grandfathers didn't measure up, I suppose? Maybe he kept asking her for 40 days and 40 nights or maybe she was a diehard Luthien & Beren fan and he got hold of this info before he made his move. It's fun to speculate. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-28-2002, 05:50 AM	#19
luinilwen Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sydney AUSTRALIA Posts: 368	as for arwen vs eowyn, i think you've all got it wrong. it's about the hair - gentlemen may prefer blondes, but kings prefer brunettes! err ignore me...

02-28-2002, 06:03 AM	#20
Vinyafalasiel Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 15	i agree with everything that has been said...great POVs...though not much has been said about their story, it was said in one of the books that they spent a season together in lorien(appendix of return of the king, i think)...what they did we can only imagine but they must surely have spent an awesome, unforgettable, amazingly romantic and incredible time together...though only for a season...it must have been enough to bond them together...LOVE LIVES! __________________ O mor henion i dhu: Ely siriar, el sila Ai! Aniron Undomiel Tiro!El eria e mor. I lir en el luitha 'uren. Ai! Aniron...

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