Arwenian costume change

bropous · 02-07-2002, 12:00 PM

I noticed in my last viewing [#7] that when Arwen comes up to Frodo for the first time in the forest, she is dressed in the white dress she wears in the "bridge scene" with Aragorn. This is when she is all framed in light and talking Elven, approaching the camera. Yet when the wider shot comes in, with she and Aragorn approaching Frodo, she has a dark green riding thingy on. So do you think Jackson is attempting to infer that Frodo was so close to succumbing to the Morgul Blade and the Ring that he was seeing Arwen as she really is? Sort of like the concept that elves see in two worlds? Curious to see what you folks think.

ragamuffin92 · 02-07-2002, 12:39 PM

I think you're pretty close. I think the "wardrobe change" was meant by PJ to parallel the incident at the moment when Frodo sees Glorfindel as "a shining figure of white light," just before the Black Riders were swept away at the Ford of Bruinen. I am not sure if Frodo could see Glorfindel's altered state was because he was about to die from the Morgul wound, or because he was the Ring Bearer. My guess is the influence of the poison from the knife.

LuthienTinuviel · 02-07-2002, 04:08 PM

that is a really good point..

really cool when you think abou it too..

hey, why not?

aldesign · 02-07-2002, 04:16 PM

yeah, its just a reference to

White Angel / Type Savour, and Frodo can come back to the light,

Pailan · 02-07-2002, 07:06 PM

No doubt about it, bp.

jerseydevil · 02-08-2002, 02:01 AM

The image of Arwen, although again enhanced by Jackson, is similar to what is descirbed in FOTR when Frodo see Glorfindel.

"To Frodo it appeared that a white light was shining through the form and raiment of the rider, as if through a thin veil."

Then after crossing the ford - Frodo sees -
"With his last failing senses Frodo heard cries, and it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the Riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; and behind it ran small shadowy forms waving flames, that flared red in the grey mist that was falling over the world."

Then in Rivendell Frodo asks -
"I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?"

Gandald replies-
"Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. He is an Elf-lord of a house of princes"

My thought is that it was from the Morgul Blade - because he didn't see elves such as Elrond bathed in a brilliant light. The only one he saw like that afterward was Galadriel and that was from Nenya.

CaranIstar · 02-08-2002, 09:24 AM

For some reason, I've always thought that in the Wraith-realm, those who have seen the light of the Two Trees of Valinor are seen as a white light, or bathed in a white light....
That would include Glorfindel and Galadriel, but not Arwen...

LuthienTinuviel · 02-08-2002, 04:26 PM

your prolly right caran, but dioes peter jackson know or care?

not likeley..

the regular joe in the audience isn't going to notice that much..
..

but this topic is gettin old..
so . goodbye

Wayfarer · 02-08-2002, 04:59 PM

Remember, glorfindel was 'unveiled in his wrath'. Somehting like what gandalf does with bilbo, or galadriel does with frodo. Only worse.

02-07-2002, 12:00 PM	#1
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Arwenian costume change I noticed in my last viewing [#7] that when Arwen comes up to Frodo for the first time in the forest, she is dressed in the white dress she wears in the "bridge scene" with Aragorn. This is when she is all framed in light and talking Elven, approaching the camera. Yet when the wider shot comes in, with she and Aragorn approaching Frodo, she has a dark green riding thingy on. So do you think Jackson is attempting to infer that Frodo was so close to succumbing to the Morgul Blade and the Ring that he was seeing Arwen as she really is? Sort of like the concept that elves see in two worlds? Curious to see what you folks think. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

02-07-2002, 12:39 PM	#2
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Oh, bropous... I think you're pretty close. I think the "wardrobe change" was meant by PJ to parallel the incident at the moment when Frodo sees Glorfindel as "a shining figure of white light," just before the Black Riders were swept away at the Ford of Bruinen. I am not sure if Frodo could see Glorfindel's altered state was because he was about to die from the Morgul wound, or because he was the Ring Bearer. My guess is the influence of the poison from the knife.

02-07-2002, 04:08 PM	#3
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	that is a really good point.. really cool when you think abou it too.. hey, why not? __________________

02-07-2002, 07:06 PM	#5
Pailan Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: aisle 12, seat#2 Posts: 449	No doubt about it, bp. __________________ "Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives.

02-08-2002, 02:01 AM	#6
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	The image of Arwen, although again enhanced by Jackson, is similar to what is descirbed in FOTR when Frodo see Glorfindel. "To Frodo it appeared that a white light was shining through the form and raiment of the rider, as if through a thin veil." Then after crossing the ford - Frodo sees - "With his last failing senses Frodo heard cries, and it seemed to him that he saw, beyond the Riders that hesitated on the shore, a shining figure of white light; and behind it ran small shadowy forms waving flames, that flared red in the grey mist that was falling over the world." Then in Rivendell Frodo asks - "I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?" Gandald replies- "Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. He is an Elf-lord of a house of princes" My thought is that it was from the Morgul Blade - because he didn't see elves such as Elrond bathed in a brilliant light. The only one he saw like that afterward was Galadriel and that was from Nenya. __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 02-08-2002 at 02:03 AM.

02-07-2002, 04:16 PM	#4
aldesign Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Uk Posts: 447	yeah, its just a reference to White Angel / Type Savour, and Frodo can come back to the light,

02-08-2002, 09:24 AM	#7
CaranIstar Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 32	For some reason, I've always thought that in the Wraith-realm, those who have seen the light of the Two Trees of Valinor are seen as a white light, or bathed in a white light.... That would include Glorfindel and Galadriel, but not Arwen... Last edited by CaranIstar : 02-08-2002 at 09:25 AM.

02-08-2002, 04:26 PM	#8
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	your prolly right caran, but dioes peter jackson know or care? not likeley.. the regular joe in the audience isn't going to notice that much.. .. but this topic is gettin old.. so . goodbye __________________

02-08-2002, 04:59 PM	#9
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Remember, glorfindel was 'unveiled in his wrath'. Somehting like what gandalf does with bilbo, or galadriel does with frodo. Only worse. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

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