What are giants?

Legolas_BowKing · 01-27-2002, 04:56 AM

There are giants mentioned in "The Hobbit" but what were they? And how come they played no part in the "Lord Of The Rings"? I am sure that they could of wiped out a few (thousand) Orcs.

athelas · 01-27-2002, 04:57 AM

Erm...do you mean the trolls?

Legolas_BowKing · 01-27-2002, 05:09 AM

No there were giants spoken of when they crossed the mountains. They threw giant boulders to each other.

Thrain of the Shire · 01-27-2002, 05:21 AM

If you can give us a reference eg page number we can cross ref with other books...I don't recall giants offhand, but haven't read the Hobbit for a while, so help us out...

Legolas_BowKing · 01-27-2002, 05:27 AM

Sorry i cant give a eg because i dont currently have the book but when i do i will.

afro-elf · 01-27-2002, 06:31 AM

Yes, Giants ARE mentioned in the Hobbit.

p 99-100 and 118

athelas · 01-27-2002, 07:12 AM

ok....I found the page. "When he peeped out in the lightning flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone giants were out, and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang." I have no idea what they are. They could have been:
1) Crazy trolls.
2) Something that Sauron never knew about. ( which is highly unlikely.)
or 3) They weren't really stone giants, just figments of Bilbo's imagination, as he watches rocks rolling off the mountains in the storm. After all, you can't really see clearly in the dark, especially when lightning keeps flashing about.

or even this: 4) another of Tolkien's enigmas, like Tom Bombadil.

You were right about them being able to kill thousands of orcs. Those rocks being hurled down certainly would.

Lightice · 01-27-2002, 12:23 PM

It was claimed, that Gandalf was worried about the giants also, and he also said, after fleeing from goblin tunnels, that he must find some more or less decent giant to block that hole, or soon there's no going across the mountains.

I'd say, that those stone giants were damn big trolls, which had more or less abandoned their dark lords, and becomed crazy, but mostly harmless...
Though I believe, that Tolkien would had dropped them off the book, after making the LotR, but he ofcourse couldn't anymore.

Ñólendil · 01-27-2002, 07:10 PM

I've moved this to this forum, as it really covers two books. I think the Stone Giants don't appear in the Lord of the Rings for the same reason the Ents don't in The Hobbit. The just don't have a place in the story.

afro-elf · 01-27-2002, 10:48 PM

I don't believe that they were trolls. I think that they are giants just as the text reads. There are vampires in the SIL but they are never heard of again. They just don't play a part. Trolls are mentioned in the Hobbit as Trolls. So I believe giants are giants.

Kwijibo · 02-02-2002, 06:27 PM

I reckon they were real giants that were like Tom Bombadil. They stayed in their own little bit of Middle-Earth and didn't mix themselves up 2 much with other peoples business.

That's y they weren't involved in the War of the Ring. They refused to leave the Goblin's Mountain, and, as probably nothing could hurt them (i don't think much can hurt a big lumpy thing made of rock

) they didn't bother getting involved.

The White Rider · 02-14-2002, 05:42 PM

Maybe giants were tortured Entwives, as Trolls are tortured Ents. Or they could be tortued Drawfs

,Who have grown (or been bred) to a large size. This one comes from The Sil, where it says on Pg 51, that Elves believe that Drawfs go back to stone when they die.

Lightice · 02-15-2002, 05:08 PM

Dwarfs can't be corrupted. They were made that way, and them growing into giants sounds a bit odd to me.
Trolls aren't tortured ents. They were mockery of ents. Some claim, that they are corrupted primitive men, others tell, that they are stone with orcish spirits bound to it. No one knows for sure.

Nibs · 02-15-2002, 05:19 PM

I like the idea that they were figments of Bilbo's imagination. Although that type of writing isn't prevalent throughout the rest of the Hobbit and LotR, it produces too many incongruencies for Tollkien to only mention them once.

At least, that's my opinion.

Twilight · 02-15-2002, 07:25 PM

I don't think that they were figment's of Bilbo's imagination. They were mentioned three sepparate times in the Hobbit. I think they might have also been in the fellowship of the rings. I don't have the book with me, and my memory is kind of bad. It would be fairly near the begining when they are talking about strange things being seen near the shire. I can't remember that one for sure so somebody else would have to look it up. I just reread the hobbit a few days ago, so I am sure of what I was talking about there.

afro-elf · 02-16-2002, 07:32 AM

Sorry Nibs I have to disagree.

Gandalf mentions his thoughts on asking one of th friendlier giants to block up the door to "goblin-town"
o to don't think that they were imaginary.

Wayfarer · 02-16-2002, 01:54 PM

Maybe they were just big humans?

After all... Beorn was absolutely huge, and he was supposedly a human that once lived near the misty mountains. So he could have even larger relatives.

Bregalad · 02-16-2002, 09:59 PM

The only actual sighting of stone giants is in the previously mentioned thunderstorm in the Hobbit. There are only a few vague references to them in LOTR. At first, I thought I remembered a stone giant in Moria, but that was a stone troll and they do not appear to be the same thing. Stone Giants are described as larger and stronger than men. Man-like, but not necessarily a type of man. Many people believe that the Stone Giant bit in the Hobbit is just a euphanism for thunder, like our own story of Giants bowling in the sky, but I don't buy it. During the thunderstorm scene in the Hobbit, Bilbo is obviously a frightened believer in stone giants, and the dwarves themselves express fears that the stone giants will "pick them up", perhaps to be thrown and smashed like the boulders the giants are throwing.
An excellent website for those interested in Tolkien monsters is:
http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-70531/Tolkien/
and anyone who doesn't have a link to the Encyclopedia of Arda is just silly!

:
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

Nibs · 02-16-2002, 10:23 PM

I'm going to re-read that part in the Hobbit forthwith and report, although I doubt that will clear anything up...

I still think it's odd that they would only mentioned be a few times, as it were, and little more. 'Course, it's probably all a matter of opinion, although I still like the euphemism hypothesis.

markedel · 02-16-2002, 11:05 PM

The Hobbit is not entirely trustworthy as Middle Earth Canon. In fact nothing is trustworthy as Middle Earth Canon

Mwahahahahaha

01-27-2002, 04:56 AM	#1
Legolas_BowKing Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 115	What are giants? There are giants mentioned in "The Hobbit" but what were they? And how come they played no part in the "Lord Of The Rings"? I am sure that they could of wiped out a few (thousand) Orcs.

01-27-2002, 04:57 AM	#2
athelas Enting Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Twilight Meres Posts: 87	Erm...do you mean the trolls? __________________ Farewell sweet earth and nortern sky, for ever blest,since here did lie and here with lissom limbs did run beneath the Moon, beneath the Sun, Lùthien Tinùviel more fair than mortal tongue can tell. Though all to ruin fell the world and were dissolved and backward hurled unmade into old abyss, yet were its making good, for this-- the dusk, the dawn, the earth, the sea-- that Lùthien for a time should be. "I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam."-Frodo FRODO LIVES!!! (erm...Sam does too, right?)

01-27-2002, 05:21 AM	#4
Thrain of the Shire Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Oxford -- (one) home of the man himself Posts: 28	can you give us a page number... If you can give us a reference eg page number we can cross ref with other books...I don't recall giants offhand, but haven't read the Hobbit for a while, so help us out...

01-27-2002, 06:31 AM	#6
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Yes, Giants ARE mentioned in the Hobbit. p 99-100 and 118 __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

01-27-2002, 07:12 AM	#7
athelas Enting Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Twilight Meres Posts: 87	ok....I found the page. "When he peeped out in the lightning flashes, he saw that across the valley the stone giants were out, and were hurling rocks at one another for a game, and catching them, and tossing them down into the darkness where they smashed among trees far below, or splintered into little bits with a bang." I have no idea what they are. They could have been: 1) Crazy trolls. 2) Something that Sauron never knew about. ( which is highly unlikely.) or 3) They weren't really stone giants, just figments of Bilbo's imagination, as he watches rocks rolling off the mountains in the storm. After all, you can't really see clearly in the dark, especially when lightning keeps flashing about. or even this: 4) another of Tolkien's enigmas, like Tom Bombadil. You were right about them being able to kill thousands of orcs. Those rocks being hurled down certainly would. __________________ Farewell sweet earth and nortern sky, for ever blest,since here did lie and here with lissom limbs did run beneath the Moon, beneath the Sun, Lùthien Tinùviel more fair than mortal tongue can tell. Though all to ruin fell the world and were dissolved and backward hurled unmade into old abyss, yet were its making good, for this-- the dusk, the dawn, the earth, the sea-- that Lùthien for a time should be. "I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam."-Frodo FRODO LIVES!!! (erm...Sam does too, right?) Last edited by athelas : 01-27-2002 at 07:16 AM.

01-27-2002, 05:09 AM	#3
Legolas_BowKing Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 115	No there were giants spoken of when they crossed the mountains. They threw giant boulders to each other.

01-27-2002, 05:27 AM	#5
Legolas_BowKing Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 115	Sorry i cant give a eg because i dont currently have the book but when i do i will.

01-27-2002, 12:23 PM	#8
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	It was claimed, that Gandalf was worried about the giants also, and he also said, after fleeing from goblin tunnels, that he must find some more or less decent giant to block that hole, or soon there's no going across the mountains. I'd say, that those stone giants were damn big trolls, which had more or less abandoned their dark lords, and becomed crazy, but mostly harmless... Though I believe, that Tolkien would had dropped them off the book, after making the LotR, but he ofcourse couldn't anymore.

01-27-2002, 07:10 PM	#9
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I've moved this to this forum, as it really covers two books. I think the Stone Giants don't appear in the Lord of the Rings for the same reason the Ents don't in The Hobbit. The just don't have a place in the story. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-27-2002, 10:48 PM	#10
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I don't believe that they were trolls. I think that they are giants just as the text reads. There are vampires in the SIL but they are never heard of again. They just don't play a part. Trolls are mentioned in the Hobbit as Trolls. So I believe giants are giants. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

02-02-2002, 06:27 PM	#11
Kwijibo Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlorien (actually Wales, but let's not talk about that) Posts: 117	I reckon they were real giants that were like Tom Bombadil. They stayed in their own little bit of Middle-Earth and didn't mix themselves up 2 much with other peoples business. That's y they weren't involved in the War of the Ring. They refused to leave the Goblin's Mountain, and, as probably nothing could hurt them (i don't think much can hurt a big lumpy thing made of rock ) they didn't bother getting involved. __________________ 'So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can decide is what to do with the time that is given to you,' - Gandalf the Grey 'I left my body to science, but I'm afraid they've turned it down' - In memory of Graham Chapman 'Rubin sits like Buddah in a 10 foot cell, An innocent man in a living hell,' - From 'Hurricane' by Bob Dylan, the only innocent Hurricane protest song, written stressing the innocence of Rubin 'Hurricane' Carter, a black, middle-weight boxer imprisoned for 19 for a triple murder which he did not commit.

02-14-2002, 05:42 PM	#12
The White Rider Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the name of Arda Posts: 23	Maybe giants were tortured Entwives, as Trolls are tortured Ents. Or they could be tortued Drawfs ,Who have grown (or been bred) to a large size. This one comes from The Sil, where it says on Pg 51, that Elves believe that Drawfs go back to stone when they die. __________________ Guiding everyone I can see... Straight to doom except for me.

02-15-2002, 05:08 PM	#13
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	Dwarfs can't be corrupted. They were made that way, and them growing into giants sounds a bit odd to me. Trolls aren't tortured ents. They were mockery of ents. Some claim, that they are corrupted primitive men, others tell, that they are stone with orcish spirits bound to it. No one knows for sure.

02-15-2002, 05:19 PM	#14
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	I like the idea that they were figments of Bilbo's imagination. Although that type of writing isn't prevalent throughout the rest of the Hobbit and LotR, it produces too many incongruencies for Tollkien to only mention them once. At least, that's my opinion.

02-15-2002, 07:25 PM	#15
Twilight Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wilmore, KY Posts: 269	I don't think that they were figment's of Bilbo's imagination. They were mentioned three sepparate times in the Hobbit. I think they might have also been in the fellowship of the rings. I don't have the book with me, and my memory is kind of bad. It would be fairly near the begining when they are talking about strange things being seen near the shire. I can't remember that one for sure so somebody else would have to look it up. I just reread the hobbit a few days ago, so I am sure of what I was talking about there. __________________ Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote.

02-16-2002, 07:32 AM	#16
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Sorry Nibs I have to disagree. Gandalf mentions his thoughts on asking one of th friendlier giants to block up the door to "goblin-town" o to don't think that they were imaginary. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

02-16-2002, 01:54 PM	#17
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Maybe they were just big humans? After all... Beorn was absolutely huge, and he was supposedly a human that once lived near the misty mountains. So he could have even larger relatives. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

02-16-2002, 09:59 PM	#18
Bregalad Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: KY Posts: 217	The only actual sighting of stone giants is in the previously mentioned thunderstorm in the Hobbit. There are only a few vague references to them in LOTR. At first, I thought I remembered a stone giant in Moria, but that was a stone troll and they do not appear to be the same thing. Stone Giants are described as larger and stronger than men. Man-like, but not necessarily a type of man. Many people believe that the Stone Giant bit in the Hobbit is just a euphanism for thunder, like our own story of Giants bowling in the sky, but I don't buy it. During the thunderstorm scene in the Hobbit, Bilbo is obviously a frightened believer in stone giants, and the dwarves themselves express fears that the stone giants will "pick them up", perhaps to be thrown and smashed like the boulders the giants are throwing. An excellent website for those interested in Tolkien monsters is: http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-70531/Tolkien/ and anyone who doesn't have a link to the Encyclopedia of Arda is just silly! : http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ __________________ "They have called me that ever since I said yes to an elder Ent before he had finished his question" -Quickbeam This post property of Entmoot.

02-16-2002, 10:23 PM	#19
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	I'm going to re-read that part in the Hobbit forthwith and report, although I doubt that will clear anything up... I still think it's odd that they would only mentioned be a few times, as it were, and little more. 'Course, it's probably all a matter of opinion, although I still like the euphemism hypothesis. __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

02-16-2002, 11:05 PM	#20
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	The Hobbit is not entirely trustworthy as Middle Earth Canon. In fact nothing is trustworthy as Middle Earth Canon Mwahahahahaha __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
NFL Beef Thread	Valandil	General Messages	242	02-04-2014 12:43 AM
Stone Giants	UnStashable	Middle Earth	26	11-02-2004 04:42 PM
Giants!	Duddun	RPG Forum	451	01-04-2003 04:34 PM
Why dont Americans like Football (soccer)?	Sween	General Messages	34	12-25-2002 10:57 AM
What were the giants?	Legolas_BowKing	The Hobbit (book)	6	01-31-2002 07:18 PM