The Gift of Death

FrodoFriend · 01-22-2002, 12:24 AM

Supposing you could choose, would you rather have the immortality of the Elves, or the "gift" of Death bestowed on Men?
Personally, I think the Numenoreans got the best deal - long lived, but also get to die and find out what lies outside Middle Earth. Iluvatar did, after all, mean it as a gift.

ragamuffin92 · 01-22-2002, 01:17 AM

What a question!!!
Hmmmm...I would have to agree with you, FrodoFriend. I would bet that sorrow would have always been a part of life in the Blessed Realm (not continually, tho), because that seemed to be the case after Melkor and Ungolliant befouled the place.
The resting place of humans was most likely Heaven-ish, since it was a gift from Eru. I wonder why the professor wrote almost nothing about it.

afro-elf · 01-22-2002, 04:36 AM

That is a tad difficult to answer because Tolkien was a Christian and thus, believed in a hereafter.

For someone whose coporeal sensibilities are in the forefront it is question of;

a) do i answer as if tolkien's world is true with all of his beliefs

b) do i answer it with the heart of this world

I would probably choose the first born in both cases.

afro-elf · 01-22-2002, 04:53 AM

Here is another link with a similar question.

http://www.tolkientrail.com/entmoot/...&threadid=2069

Tar-Elendil · 04-28-2002, 07:53 PM

I would choose the race of Men. the thought of living upon Eã for so long is too bittersweet, even if it was in valinor.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 04-29-2002, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ragamuffin92
What a question!!!
Hmmmm...I would have to agree with you, FrodoFriend. I would bet that sorrow would have always been a part of life in the Blessed Realm (not continually, tho), because that seemed to be the case after Melkor and Ungolliant befouled the place.
The resting place of humans was most likely Heaven-ish, since it was a gift from Eru. I wonder why the professor wrote almost nothing about it.

Actually, Tolkien elaborates on this extensively in the "Athrabeth".

Radagast The Brown · 05-02-2002, 01:49 PM

I think I'll choose the elves because they are smarter, stronger and they aren't dying without reason.

sun-star · 05-02-2002, 03:52 PM

I think I would choose immortality - it might be bittersweet but that's still sweet. I could learn as much as I could about Middle Earth, then sail to the West. I'd like that.

Wayfarer · 05-02-2002, 09:48 PM

Remember, death was part of the package that men got to choose and expand their life beyond the music. Elves didn't. So, would you rather have a short, exciting life with mostly full control, or a long life consigned to elvishness?

I don't know... I have a lot in common with the sadness and poignancy of the elves... but I like my choice too...

markedel · 05-02-2002, 09:51 PM

I'd take mortality, there's a reason why there aren't immortal beings in this world today-immortality leads to a frozen existence.

Nienna · 05-03-2002, 06:25 AM

I can't help prefering the immortal existance but I'm not sure I would like those long periods of staying in one place. I think the second born have a faster, more exciting existance.

Tar-Elendil · 05-03-2002, 04:40 PM

Quote:

I think I'll choose the elves because they are smarter, stronger and they aren't dying without reason.

bah..stronger? nay

Elf Girl · 05-03-2002, 07:38 PM

I don't know. I think I'd choose mortality, because I don't think I could live for thousands of years knowing I could only do what Eru intended for the average Elf.

Renille · 05-03-2002, 11:45 PM

It really depends on how my life was. If it was filled with dissapointments and bad luck, I would prefer mortality. No, I take that back. I prefer mortality. It's better knowing you can get to a better place rather than staying on a hard earth forever.

Radagast The Brown · 05-05-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

originally posted by Tar-Elendil
bah..stronger? nay

The elves were stronger, for my opinion.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 05-05-2002, 07:22 PM

Not even my opinion, but fact. The Elves of the First Age were much more enduring and hardier than Men of that era, or Elves of the Third Age.

Tar-Elendil · 05-05-2002, 08:48 PM

bah..ok...in the first age..but third age, i just cant believe..

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 05-05-2002, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tar-Elendil
bah..ok...in the first age..but third age, i just cant believe..

The Elves of the First Age were more enduring and hardier than Elves of the Third Age. For that very reason. The Elves of the First Age were young and the Noldor had just come from the Blessed Realm. The Elves of the Third Age were at a point especially near the end where the dominion of Men was at hand, and had and were diminishing greatly in power.

Radagast The Brown · 05-06-2002, 01:28 PM

Quote:

bah..ok...in the first age..but third age, i just cant believe..

I think that they were stonger on the Third age too. For example Elrond or Galadriel. they were stronger in they're powers then Aragorn.

Tar-Elendil · 05-06-2002, 07:18 PM

yea but galadriel was born in valinor before the creating of the silmarils..no surprise she had something over men and all elves as well..and anyways thats just two elves...when you can think of more, besides celeborn, tell me

01-22-2002, 12:24 AM	#1
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	The Gift of Death Supposing you could choose, would you rather have the immortality of the Elves, or the "gift" of Death bestowed on Men? Personally, I think the Numenoreans got the best deal - long lived, but also get to die and find out what lies outside Middle Earth. Iluvatar did, after all, mean it as a gift. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-22-2002, 01:17 AM	#2
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	What a question!!! Hmmmm...I would have to agree with you, FrodoFriend. I would bet that sorrow would have always been a part of life in the Blessed Realm (not continually, tho), because that seemed to be the case after Melkor and Ungolliant befouled the place. The resting place of humans was most likely Heaven-ish, since it was a gift from Eru. I wonder why the professor wrote almost nothing about it. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

01-22-2002, 04:36 AM	#3
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	That is a tad difficult to answer because Tolkien was a Christian and thus, believed in a hereafter. For someone whose coporeal sensibilities are in the forefront it is question of; a) do i answer as if tolkien's world is true with all of his beliefs b) do i answer it with the heart of this world I would probably choose the first born in both cases. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 01-22-2002 at 04:37 AM.

01-22-2002, 04:53 AM	#4
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Here is another link with a similar question. http://www.tolkientrail.com/entmoot/...&threadid=2069 __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

04-28-2002, 07:53 PM	#5
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	I would choose the race of Men. the thought of living upon Eã for so long is too bittersweet, even if it was in valinor. __________________ Why can we not be sober..

05-02-2002, 01:49 PM	#7
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I think I'll choose the elves because they are smarter, stronger and they aren't dying without reason. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

05-02-2002, 03:52 PM	#8
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I think I would choose immortality - it might be bittersweet but that's still sweet. I could learn as much as I could about Middle Earth, then sail to the West. I'd like that. __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

05-02-2002, 09:48 PM	#9
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Remember, death was part of the package that men got to choose and expand their life beyond the music. Elves didn't. So, would you rather have a short, exciting life with mostly full control, or a long life consigned to elvishness? I don't know... I have a lot in common with the sadness and poignancy of the elves... but I like my choice too... __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

05-02-2002, 09:51 PM	#10
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I'd take mortality, there's a reason why there aren't immortal beings in this world today-immortality leads to a frozen existence. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

05-03-2002, 06:25 AM	#11
Nienna Sapling Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 12	I can't help prefering the immortal existance but I'm not sure I would like those long periods of staying in one place. I think the second born have a faster, more exciting existance.

05-03-2002, 07:38 PM	#13
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	I don't know. I think I'd choose mortality, because I don't think I could live for thousands of years knowing I could only do what Eru intended for the average Elf. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

05-03-2002, 11:45 PM	#14
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	It really depends on how my life was. If it was filled with dissapointments and bad luck, I would prefer mortality. No, I take that back. I prefer mortality. It's better knowing you can get to a better place rather than staying on a hard earth forever. __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

05-05-2002, 07:22 PM	#16
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Not even my opinion, but fact. The Elves of the First Age were much more enduring and hardier than Men of that era, or Elves of the Third Age.

05-05-2002, 08:48 PM	#17
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	bah..ok...in the first age..but third age, i just cant believe.. __________________ Why can we not be sober..

05-06-2002, 07:18 PM	#20
Tar-Elendil Númenorean Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,050	yea but galadriel was born in valinor before the creating of the silmarils..no surprise she had something over men and all elves as well..and anyways thats just two elves...when you can think of more, besides celeborn, tell me __________________ Why can we not be sober..

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