Missing pieces...

Play Girl · 01-07-2002, 03:11 PM

Sam never got his little box of dirt form Lothlorien!
How will the shire be saved now?
Ahhhhhh
Play Girl
xxx

emplynx · 01-07-2002, 03:15 PM

I have wondered the same thing. Most of the gift giving was edited out. (You see the elven clokes but didn't see them given.) This part could be on the DVD.

BUT, I have heard that the Scouring (?) of the Shire will be really different, so he might not even use the box...

I hope not.

bropous · 01-08-2002, 04:41 PM

I was also saddened that the gift of the box to Sam was edited out, a rumor has it that the entire scene had Galadriel giving ALL of the gifts out. Maybe this will be included in the DVD Director's Cut.

Kevin McIntyre · 01-08-2002, 06:14 PM

Even if the gift giving scene is included on the DVD how could the TT or ROTK reference something that was not in the theatrical release? Assuming a good portion of the movie viewers have never read the story then they may be confused.

samwise of the shire · 01-08-2002, 07:03 PM

One thing I learned about FOTR was that even though some of the changes did'nt seem to work out before I saw the movie, when I watched it it was like WOW!!!that was PERFECT. I am looking foward to seeing TTT to see how PJ does the changes in it. DONT put your expectations too high but dont start thinking it'll be dumb by what you read or see. Somehow it will all tie in. Just sit back and relax.
Sam

Churl · 01-08-2002, 08:34 PM

Obviously it wouldn't work as well as if it had appeared in the Fellowship film in the first place, but Sam's gift could be introduced in a flashback. E.g.:

Sam: "Mr. Frodo, when the Lady gave you the star-glass, she gave me a gift as well…"

If the presentation of the gifts was indeed shot but not used for Fellowship, then it could be partially repurposed for such a flashback.

Of course, this might look cheesy or contrived to people who haven't read the books: i.e., "Oh, isn't that convenient — now they're just adding stuff that didn't happen in the first movie.", etc.

My guess is that the film version of the Scouring (if it is included at all), will be abbreviated.

I'd love to think that it will be at least attempted, though: the Scouring and the heroes' reaction to it accomplished many things. It brought the story full-circle, demonstrated the growth of the hobbits, and (combined with the Gray Havens) mixed a poignant, realistic dose of "bitter" into a customary "sweet" ending.

Does anyone have more solid info on the Return of the King film?

bropous · 01-08-2002, 11:55 PM

My thoughts exactly as to flashbacks covering the Gift of Galadriel to Sam, Churl, and as to the Scouring of the Shire and the Grey Havens. Jeez, I am gonna cry my friggin' eyes out at the parting of the Grey Havens! I got misty each time I read the scene, but if Sam cries at Frodo's parting, I am gonna weep for days!!!!

And, a little belated, Churl, but welcome to the Entmoot!

Kevin McIntyre · 01-09-2002, 12:16 AM

from what i've heard the Scouring of the Shire was filmed (parts of it can be seen in the Mirror of Galadriel scene). An abreviated version is said to be in the ROTK as of now. But who knows, reshooting is scheduled for May and June, so some new stuff may be done and of course ROTK doesn't come out to 2003, plenty of time for the vision of the ending to come into focus

Churl · 01-09-2002, 01:36 AM

Thank you, bropous, for your welcome, and further thanks to everyone here for interesting, intelligent, and civil discussion.

In the wake of September 11th, I dabbled in the Slate discussion groups (aptly titled "The Fray") for a while, but I quickly grew tired of the ugly flame wars and hate spewed by anonymous bigots there. For every intelligent, constructive Fray poster, it seemed like there were ten others who were just looking for a fight.

What a relief it was, then, to find the Entmoot! Because of pleasant and informed "regulars," eager newbies, and everyone in between, this has become my favorite web destination.

More shameless (but sincere) favor-currying: I want to extend special admiration and thanks to the administrators here. They make sure that the Entmoot remains a tasteful (and very well organized) forum in which to share thoughts. Many kudos!

bropous · 01-09-2002, 12:13 PM

At the risk of sounding suck-up, I must agree with you, Churl, about the fine job the administrators [and moderators, for that matter] do on this group.

Churl · 01-09-2002, 09:47 PM

Sorry for the omission — I was lumping "moderators" in with "administrators," but it stands to reason that they're not always the same people. In any case, thanks to all.

***anduin*** · 01-10-2002, 08:46 AM

We knew what you meant.

01-07-2002, 03:11 PM	#1
Play Girl Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: If I told you I would have to kill you Posts: 159	Missing pieces... Sam never got his little box of dirt form Lothlorien! How will the shire be saved now? Ahhhhhh Play Girl xxx __________________ "Off the Record On the Q-T And very HUSH HUSH" Frodo lives!

01-08-2002, 04:41 PM	#3
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I was also saddened that the gift of the box to Sam was edited out, a rumor has it that the entire scene had Galadriel giving ALL of the gifts out. Maybe this will be included in the DVD Director's Cut. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-08-2002, 07:03 PM	#5
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	Who knows One thing I learned about FOTR was that even though some of the changes did'nt seem to work out before I saw the movie, when I watched it it was like WOW!!!that was PERFECT. I am looking foward to seeing TTT to see how PJ does the changes in it. DONT put your expectations too high but dont start thinking it'll be dumb by what you read or see. Somehow it will all tie in. Just sit back and relax. Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

01-08-2002, 11:55 PM	#7
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	My thoughts exactly as to flashbacks covering the Gift of Galadriel to Sam, Churl, and as to the Scouring of the Shire and the Grey Havens. Jeez, I am gonna cry my friggin' eyes out at the parting of the Grey Havens! I got misty each time I read the scene, but if Sam cries at Frodo's parting, I am gonna weep for days!!!! And, a little belated, Churl, but welcome to the Entmoot! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-09-2002, 01:36 AM	#9
Churl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 128	Thank you, bropous, for your welcome, and further thanks to everyone here for interesting, intelligent, and civil discussion. In the wake of September 11th, I dabbled in the Slate discussion groups (aptly titled "The Fray") for a while, but I quickly grew tired of the ugly flame wars and hate spewed by anonymous bigots there. For every intelligent, constructive Fray poster, it seemed like there were ten others who were just looking for a fight. What a relief it was, then, to find the Entmoot! Because of pleasant and informed "regulars," eager newbies, and everyone in between, this has become my favorite web destination. More shameless (but sincere) favor-currying: I want to extend special admiration and thanks to the administrators here. They make sure that the Entmoot remains a tasteful (and very well organized) forum in which to share thoughts. Many kudos! Last edited by Churl : 01-09-2002 at 01:40 AM.

01-07-2002, 03:15 PM	#2
emplynx Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,214	I have wondered the same thing. Most of the gift giving was edited out. (You see the elven clokes but didn't see them given.) This part could be on the DVD. BUT, I have heard that the Scouring (?) of the Shire will be really different, so he might not even use the box... I hope not.

01-08-2002, 06:14 PM	#4
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	Even if the gift giving scene is included on the DVD how could the TT or ROTK reference something that was not in the theatrical release? Assuming a good portion of the movie viewers have never read the story then they may be confused.

01-08-2002, 08:34 PM	#6
Churl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 128	Obviously it wouldn't work as well as if it had appeared in the Fellowship film in the first place, but Sam's gift could be introduced in a flashback. E.g.: Sam: "Mr. Frodo, when the Lady gave you the star-glass, she gave me a gift as well…" If the presentation of the gifts was indeed shot but not used for Fellowship, then it could be partially repurposed for such a flashback. Of course, this might look cheesy or contrived to people who haven't read the books: i.e., "Oh, isn't that convenient — now they're just adding stuff that didn't happen in the first movie.", etc. My guess is that the film version of the Scouring (if it is included at all), will be abbreviated. I'd love to think that it will be at least attempted, though: the Scouring and the heroes' reaction to it accomplished many things. It brought the story full-circle, demonstrated the growth of the hobbits, and (combined with the Gray Havens) mixed a poignant, realistic dose of "bitter" into a customary "sweet" ending. Does anyone have more solid info on the Return of the King film?

01-09-2002, 12:16 AM	#8
Kevin McIntyre Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bree Posts: 148	from what i've heard the Scouring of the Shire was filmed (parts of it can be seen in the Mirror of Galadriel scene). An abreviated version is said to be in the ROTK as of now. But who knows, reshooting is scheduled for May and June, so some new stuff may be done and of course ROTK doesn't come out to 2003, plenty of time for the vision of the ending to come into focus

01-09-2002, 12:13 PM	#10
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	At the risk of sounding suck-up, I must agree with you, Churl, about the fine job the administrators [and moderators, for that matter] do on this group. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-09-2002, 09:47 PM	#11
Churl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 128	Sorry for the omission — I was lumping "moderators" in with "administrators," but it stands to reason that they're not always the same people. In any case, thanks to all.

01-10-2002, 08:46 AM	#12
*anduin* Entwife Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: louisville Posts: 3,718	We knew what you meant.

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