Gollum

Gandalf The Grey · 01-05-2002, 09:51 AM

I wonder where Gollum lived before the ring came to him?

Finglas · 01-05-2002, 10:32 AM

He lived in a small fishing community on the river Anduin.

Gandalf The Grey · 01-05-2002, 11:13 AM

Thanks

Agburanar · 01-09-2002, 10:17 AM

That it? Not going anywhere else? I've got the atlas of Middle Earth and I can't remember if it showed whereabouts on the Anduin but I should imagine it was pretty close to the mountains, how did those hobbits spread across the mountains?

luinilwen · 01-14-2002, 01:52 AM

smeagol (gollum) must have dwelled near the gladden fields, for i believe it was the gladden river in which isildur fell (correct me if i'm wrong!).

Quote:

akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors"

from LOTR. gollum wasn't actually a hobbit, but one would assume most creatures who lived near the wilderland went over the mountain out of necessity due to the darkening of mirkwood.

just a suggestion

Laurelyn · 01-24-2002, 07:22 AM

Gandalf says at the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring that Smeagol was most likely hobbit-related, not necessarily a hobbit.

Lightice · 01-24-2002, 07:29 AM

But appendix of LotR tells, that when shadow had risen at Angmar, some hobbits travelled to south, at banks of Anduin, and became fishing river-people. Thus, I'd say, that Gollum was a hobbit, but from time when three houses of halflings were just started to separate of each other (and came back together, long before Bilbo was born).

Agburanar · 01-24-2002, 10:00 AM

Wasn't the Gladden river the Anduin, or was it just a tributary of the great river? At some point it ran into the Anduin and, although under normal circumstance it would be unlkiely for a thing of that size to be swept along the ring probably moved by it's own will.

Bregalad · 02-16-2002, 11:28 PM

From the Tolkien Companion:

Quote:

He was born in the 24th century of the 3rd age and was in origin closely akin to Hobbit-kind, for his family were of Stoorish blood but had returned to the vales of the Anduin after dwelling in Eriador, unlike most of their race. They dwelt at that time, not far from the banks of the Anduin river, near the Gladden Fields.

The Gladden Fields were the wet, green lands about the mouth of the river, Gladden, where it ran into the Anduin. The Gladden flows into the Anduin from a high path in the Misty mountains about 100 miles north of the Dimrill Dale.

SamwiseGamgeeOTS · 12-25-2002, 07:33 PM

that's interesting.........no i know.

Eowyn Telcontar · 01-02-2003, 12:33 AM

Um, I decided to re-read the Hobbit then the LOTR series, and I was reading Gollum's part, and its soo scary, he talks about the riverfolk and about remembering how he lived in a hole and... for some reason I thought it was scary because...er, I dunno. Just thought I would say it

wahine · 01-02-2003, 01:22 AM

Well, I have a few gollum questions.

Why did the ring effect him the way it did? Reshaping his form and breaking his mind?

By speculation, how long could Frodo or Bilbo owned the ring before they succumbed to Smeagol's fate?

And Why didn't Gollum, like Sauron, disappear when the ring was out of reach, or out of pocketses (closer to the fact)? *Meaning simply, the books said Sauron lost a physical form, why didn't Gollum lose physical form also? Yes, I know that Sauron's spirit was bond to the ring as the Nazgul were bond to him, but his physical form was gone >POOF!< finito!> I will reittirate why didn't Smeagol go as Sauron did when Bilbo FIRST took the ring from him?*

Aloha!
Leilani

***azalea*** · 01-02-2003, 11:20 PM

Here is my quick, thrown-together answer: The Ring was a very powerful tool, and the bearer gained unnaturally long life. Gollum's form was not so much changed by the ring, but by very old age. He also of course lived beneath the mountains for a very long time, which affected his physicality. Many believe that Smeagol was not as naturally good a creature as Bilbo and Frodo, and thus he was more easily corrupted by the Ring, eg, he immediately desires the ring, and kills his friend for it. Because he bore it for so long, it's evil power naturally "poisoned" him further, until he became a crafty recluse full of hate and selfishness.
I believe it would obviously have taken a lot longer to corrupt the two hobbits to the extent that Smeagol was corrupted. But eventually they too would become like him, not exactly, but still retaining a wisp of their former personalities. I forget how long it was from the time Smeagol obtained the ring to the time he holed up in the Misty Mts., but I guess it might have taken another 50 or so years until Bilbo was completely overrun by its power. Just a guess.
Sauron was immortal, the creator of the ring, he had put much of his power into it, and was "killed" (at least his physical form was destroyed) in battle. So that is why he "disappeared." Gollum was mortal, and when Bilbo took it he didn't kill him, and since Gollum's spirit was not literally part of the ring, there was not the same kind of tie there. I don't know why Gollum didn't just die anyway when he no longer possessed the ring, because he was so old. But I guess then we would have had a different story, eh?

I hope this answered your question a little. There are other posts in different forums that may also be of help in answering them, so you may want to do some searches.

Edit: If you mean when Sauron "disappeared" when the ring was destroyed, it's because he was the Ring in a sense, because he was already weakened from his original form of many years ago, and he had put so much of his power into the ring, and the immortal beings were basically concentrated power, in a manner of speaking. So, no power, no being. That was not the case w/ Gollum, a mere mortal, who lost the ring.

wahine · 01-02-2003, 11:38 PM

Aloha azalea super moderator.

I appreciate your lengthy and concise response, and my eyes have been opened. Kindof.

But okay I get the fact the Sauron was apart of the ring, and that he couldn't disappear or die fully until the ring was destroyed. Gollum, as you said, was a mere mortal, and his life was prolonged by the ring, as was Bilbo's. What confuses me is when the ring was gone, after a mere, what, 50 years of possessing the ring, and it being taken away, Bilbo aged drastically. Gollum, or Smeagol, was closing related to hobbits. So without the ring, after having it for 500 years, he would have (within reason), turned to dust. (for the Old Took had only lived to what, a hundred and something.) So Why, if this statment is Tolkienly correct, was Gollum not "by the book" so to speak?

Ma Uai: Ua Nemti · 01-02-2003, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Here is my quick, thrown-together answer:

very quick i see

wahine · 01-03-2003, 01:10 AM

I'm glad you edited that Pharoah because I was going to ask you "What's quick?"

Anyway....

Ma Uai: Ua Nemti · 01-03-2003, 01:12 AM

Quote:

...that Pharoah because...

See? See!?!?!? I'm not crazy! I am not CRAZY! I am your Pharoah! Your God-King! HAHAHAHA...........

sorry

wahine · 01-03-2003, 01:20 AM

Quote:

...and so am I, and so am I, and so am I, and so am I...

***azalea*** · 01-03-2003, 10:36 PM

In answer to your question, I'm really not clear about that either. I believe that he was not technically a hobbit, but his kind were predacessors (sp?). I guess that would make them more man-like, I don't know. It's kind of a mystery. But my best guess for why he didn't just die is that he had it for SOOOO very long that some of whatever it is that brings long life to the bearer "rubbed off" on him and kept him going. But it is an inconsistency IMO that would have been good for Tolkien to address. Maybe he did in letters, I haven't read it yet.

originally posted by Ma Uai: Ua Nemti

quote:

very quick i see.

It's the ent in me, I guess!

Nilore · 01-04-2003, 05:04 AM

It was at Gladden fields

01-05-2002, 09:51 AM	#1
Gandalf The Grey Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20	Gollum I wonder where Gollum lived before the ring came to him?

01-05-2002, 10:32 AM	#2
Finglas Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: here, there, everywhere Posts: 88	He lived in a small fishing community on the river Anduin. __________________ If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!

01-05-2002, 11:13 AM	#3
Gandalf The Grey Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20	Re:Gollum Thanks

01-24-2002, 07:22 AM	#6
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Gandalf says at the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring that Smeagol was most likely hobbit-related, not necessarily a hobbit. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

12-25-2002, 07:33 PM	#10
SamwiseGamgeeOTS Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A quaint little hole which last time I checked was somewhere near Ohio, Middle-Earth. Posts: 165	that's interesting.........no i know. __________________ "...Eragon recoiled in shock. Standing in front of him, licking off the membrane that encased it, was a dragon."

01-09-2002, 10:17 AM	#4
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	That it? Not going anywhere else? I've got the atlas of Middle Earth and I can't remember if it showed whereabouts on the Anduin but I should imagine it was pretty close to the mountains, how did those hobbits spread across the mountains?

01-24-2002, 07:29 AM	#7
Lightice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 192	But appendix of LotR tells, that when shadow had risen at Angmar, some hobbits travelled to south, at banks of Anduin, and became fishing river-people. Thus, I'd say, that Gollum was a hobbit, but from time when three houses of halflings were just started to separate of each other (and came back together, long before Bilbo was born).

01-24-2002, 10:00 AM	#8
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Wasn't the Gladden river the Anduin, or was it just a tributary of the great river? At some point it ran into the Anduin and, although under normal circumstance it would be unlkiely for a thing of that size to be swept along the ring probably moved by it's own will.

01-02-2003, 12:33 AM	#11
Eowyn Telcontar Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 24	Um, I decided to re-read the Hobbit then the LOTR series, and I was reading Gollum's part, and its soo scary, he talks about the riverfolk and about remembering how he lived in a hole and... for some reason I thought it was scary because...er, I dunno. Just thought I would say it __________________ "Taters? What is taters precious? What is taters?" Smeagol/Gollum "PO-TAY-TOES!" Sam

01-02-2003, 01:22 AM	#12
wahine The Original Amazonian Coconut Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Answering no questions, telling no lies. Posts: 753	Well, I have a few gollum questions. Why did the ring effect him the way it did? Reshaping his form and breaking his mind? By speculation, how long could Frodo or Bilbo owned the ring before they succumbed to Smeagol's fate? And Why didn't Gollum, like Sauron, disappear when the ring was out of reach, or out of pocketses (closer to the fact)? Meaning simply, the books said Sauron lost a physical form, why didn't Gollum lose physical form also? Yes, I know that Sauron's spirit was bond to the ring as the Nazgul were bond to him, but his physical form was gone >POOF!< finito!> I will reittirate why didn't Smeagol go as Sauron did when Bilbo FIRST took the ring from him? Aloha! Leilani __________________ Hem, hem

01-02-2003, 11:20 PM	#13
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Here is my quick, thrown-together answer: The Ring was a very powerful tool, and the bearer gained unnaturally long life. Gollum's form was not so much changed by the ring, but by very old age. He also of course lived beneath the mountains for a very long time, which affected his physicality. Many believe that Smeagol was not as naturally good a creature as Bilbo and Frodo, and thus he was more easily corrupted by the Ring, eg, he immediately desires the ring, and kills his friend for it. Because he bore it for so long, it's evil power naturally "poisoned" him further, until he became a crafty recluse full of hate and selfishness. I believe it would obviously have taken a lot longer to corrupt the two hobbits to the extent that Smeagol was corrupted. But eventually they too would become like him, not exactly, but still retaining a wisp of their former personalities. I forget how long it was from the time Smeagol obtained the ring to the time he holed up in the Misty Mts., but I guess it might have taken another 50 or so years until Bilbo was completely overrun by its power. Just a guess. Sauron was immortal, the creator of the ring, he had put much of his power into it, and was "killed" (at least his physical form was destroyed) in battle. So that is why he "disappeared." Gollum was mortal, and when Bilbo took it he didn't kill him, and since Gollum's spirit was not literally part of the ring, there was not the same kind of tie there. I don't know why Gollum didn't just die anyway when he no longer possessed the ring, because he was so old. But I guess then we would have had a different story, eh? I hope this answered your question a little. There are other posts in different forums that may also be of help in answering them, so you may want to do some searches. Edit: If you mean when Sauron "disappeared" when the ring was destroyed, it's because he was the Ring in a sense, because he was already weakened from his original form of many years ago, and he had put so much of his power into the ring, and the immortal beings were basically concentrated power, in a manner of speaking. So, no power, no being. That was not the case w/ Gollum, a mere mortal, who lost the ring.

01-02-2003, 11:38 PM	#14
wahine The Original Amazonian Coconut Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Answering no questions, telling no lies. Posts: 753	Aloha azalea super moderator. I appreciate your lengthy and concise response, and my eyes have been opened. Kindof. But okay I get the fact the Sauron was apart of the ring, and that he couldn't disappear or die fully until the ring was destroyed. Gollum, as you said, was a mere mortal, and his life was prolonged by the ring, as was Bilbo's. What confuses me is when the ring was gone, after a mere, what, 50 years of possessing the ring, and it being taken away, Bilbo aged drastically. Gollum, or Smeagol, was closing related to hobbits. So without the ring, after having it for 500 years, he would have (within reason), turned to dust. (for the Old Took had only lived to what, a hundred and something.) So Why, if this statment is Tolkienly correct, was Gollum not "by the book" so to speak? __________________ Hem, hem

01-03-2003, 01:10 AM	#16
wahine The Original Amazonian Coconut Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Answering no questions, telling no lies. Posts: 753	I'm glad you edited that Pharoah because I was going to ask you "What's quick?" Anyway.... __________________ Hem, hem

01-03-2003, 10:36 PM	#19
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	In answer to your question, I'm really not clear about that either. I believe that he was not technically a hobbit, but his kind were predacessors (sp?). I guess that would make them more man-like, I don't know. It's kind of a mystery. But my best guess for why he didn't just die is that he had it for SOOOO very long that some of whatever it is that brings long life to the bearer "rubbed off" on him and kept him going. But it is an inconsistency IMO that would have been good for Tolkien to address. Maybe he did in letters, I haven't read it yet. originally posted by Ma Uai: Ua Nemti quote: very quick i see. It's the ent in me, I guess!

01-04-2003, 05:04 AM	#20
Nilore Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: I am every where and I am no where, I am everyone and I am no-one! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Posts: 319	It was at Gladden fields __________________ UZG-BURGÛLU-OB GHASHANUM GHASHNUM-OB MOR ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Raise the Phial of Galadriel and let the Star Glass of Lothlorian cast out the Darkness of Shelob's Lair. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurholth! There was a roar and a crackle, and the tree above him burst into a leaf and bloom of blinding flame. The whole hill was crowned with a dazzling light! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ bhûl latu dûmp Accept Your DOOM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DIE MERE MORTALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh NO I AM A MERE MORTAL AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHH Stop the NUKE Stop the NUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nilore writes last will and testament. Gets on knees And begs God for Mercy. Realizes He's already dead Flies up to heaven ( By the power of Red Bull) and lives happily ever after. THE END ( It's a MINI adventure) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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