An old cartoon

lookingforrings · 01-01-2002, 02:34 AM

There was a cartoon made of the Hobbit, Bakshi's cartoon and then another by someone else of the last two books . . . I thought the last cartoon came out in the 80's. I would like to find the last one. Any one remember? Any one know where to find it? I used to have it on a video tape which I loaned years ago.

Thanks!

Darth Tater · 01-01-2002, 12:03 PM

*sigh* the first redundant post of 2002, I can't just close this, I guess I'll be nice to someone who doesn't bother to read the forum first for once and tell them that the God-awefull Rankin-Bass cartoon of Return of the King (complete with gay Sam Gamgee and Elrond of the floating blue stars around his head) is what they're talking about.

lookingforrings · 01-01-2002, 12:27 PM

Thanks for your help.

Schvenn Of The Schack · 01-01-2002, 12:39 PM

Some people have lives outside messageboards.
Secondly, many people are new here and haven't or don't have the time to read every single thread on a board.
Thirdly, that kind of response was rude to an extreme.
I can see why I am reading on so many boards about how rude and/or snobbish many of the board communities are to the newbies.

lookingforrings · 01-01-2002, 05:07 PM

Thanks Schvenn. Tater made me laugh.

***Ben*** · 01-01-2002, 06:13 PM

Welcome to the board.

I agree Tater could have handled that a bit more tactfully. However, when you visit the same board daily for 2 years, I can see how it can be unnerving to have the same topics come up repeatedly. On the other hand, a ban on discussions that already occurred in 1999 can make it hard for new people to join in.

VBulletin has a handy search feature. I just tried it and searched for "cartoon" in the J.R.R. Tolkien category and one of the posts I found was this one, which could have answered your questions:
http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...hlight=cartoon

Being a newbie, it's entirely possible that lookingforrings was unaware of the search feature. Plus, the discussion about the movie was actually in the Hobbit forum, because it was originally started about that movie. Thus, even a thorough scan of the LotR movies forum would have produced nothing.

I think that the FAQ needs to be expanded. That's definitely one of the administrative projects that needs to be taken care of soon.

Personally, I like newbies. They add freshness to the board. Just because someone has been here 2 minutes as opposed to 2 years doesn't make their opinions any less valid.

Darth Tater · 01-01-2002, 07:49 PM

Well EXCUSE ME, but I was under the impression that it was my job to be the evil admin! And as for newbies, I think I've made my position on them very clear:

Quote:

Wipe them out, all of them.

PS: Welcome to the board, I hope you enjoy your stay

Quazar · 01-01-2002, 08:37 PM

Yep Tater, you are correct, give the man a cookie, Bakshi did produce the first animated, over human actors, LOTR. But please bear in mind gentle readers, this was 1975, before computers, before the internet was even a gleam in some demented scientist's mind. Even the Rankin-Bass follow up was done in 1979, the dark ages. I'm not even ashamed to admit I own both tapes.

bropous · 01-02-2002, 12:47 PM

Hang on a sec. The original Rankin-Bass Hobbit, with John Huston as Gandalf, Otto Preminger as Tharanduil, and Orson Bean as Bilbo, came out around Thanksgiving 1975. The impending release of that cartoon spurred me to finally pick up my copy of The Hobbit from my bookshelf where it had gathered dust for a couple of years. I was hooked immediately, and began, in my little corner of Southwest Louisiana, to hunt for the trilogy. Took me til 1977 or 1978 to get Return of the King; got it up here in Colorado Springs on a christmas visit, along with the calendar of the Lord of the Rings by the Brothers Hildebrant [gee I wish they would re-release that one!].

The Bakshi version of The Lord of the Rings came out in 1981 or 1982, if I recall correctly. As stated in another post, I remember well playing the theme in orchestra, newly released, as a junior and senior in high school. That film had a great script, but was too "cartoonish" for me. Seems all the good lines were snatched up by Bakshi's screenplay, maybe that's why not so many direct quotes were used in Peter Jackson's film, observations of copyrights being so bloody important in today's overly litigious society.

As for the Rankin-Bass "Return of the King", I never saw it, only one or two stills, but it looked as foolishly cartoonish as the Rankin-Bass "Hobbit". I may track it down one day.

Darth Tater: You play the perfect evil administrator! :- ) It's fun having the good cop/bad cop administration [bmilder the "straight man"?]. I gotta admit, though, as a relative "newbie" meself, I wasn't aware of the Search function either. I'll certainly put it to good use in future.

All in my humble Entingish opinion....

Quazar · 01-02-2002, 07:02 PM

The copyright release date on my tape of "Return Of The King" is 1979. Therefore the LOTR animation had to be some time in the mid-late '70's. I remember going to see it back in the day when there was just one screen per theater, way back in the dark ages.

Wayfarer · 01-02-2002, 09:22 PM

Tater...

Don't you people delete old threads? As someone who's visited the MEVault Dev Boards for, it must be almost four years now, I know what you're saying but (As someone who's been known to read entire archives in one sitting) do you expect them to pore through everything before posting?

Us webheads are the only people who have the time for that stuff anymore.

Wayfarer · 01-02-2002, 09:24 PM

...

[edited: because you guys were just wating for me to mention that, weren't you?

)

bropous · 01-02-2002, 09:59 PM

Hmmmm. Found a link with an interview with Ralph Bakshi at:

http://www.canoe.ca/JamLordOfTheRing...akshi-can.html

...sounds like a whiny little worm to me. Did a crappy job of making a film of Lord of the Rings, and now, in hindsight, is taking pot-shots at Peter Jackson's film ["I've had nothing to do with the live-action version," he says, flatly. "I wasn't contacted, I wasn't asked for the rights to do it, let's just put it that way. I wasn't asked for the rights to do it, no one's ever spoken to me about it..."].

And this: "Understand that I'm not bitching here, this is very important to me. But when you look at (the new film's) Ringwraiths flying through the forests, it's like a scene out of my movie...". Oh, come ON, Ralphie-poo! How in the living name of Hannah is you gonna come up with a Ringwraith that ain't draped in a black cloak and hood? THAT'S STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOOK, Gertrude.

On another point, the film is listed as having been released in late 1978, but it must have been in limited release for a while before it came to the sleepy town in southeast Texas I was living in at the time. 1978 just don't seem right. Maybe my memory is slipping...

Schvenn Of The Schack · 01-02-2002, 11:46 PM

Ohhhhhhhh........ok.
So we've got a rogue admin.
That I can handle.
>D
BRING 'EM ON!!!

Quazar · 01-03-2002, 02:12 PM

Hey, Tater ain't half as bad as some people that were in a 'Magic-The Gathering' chat room that I used to frequent, now there were rome real as%#*les. All experts at everything, and everyone else was dumber than dirt. This place is quite civilized by comparison, being Middle Earth and all.

Q

lookingforrings · 01-03-2002, 08:37 PM

Sheesh. All I wanted to know was the name of the cartoon. Some of my friends went and saw the new movie, which they said was great but were curious why it ended so abruptly. They were even more dismayed to learn that it would be next year before the next part is released. I had recommended they read the trilogy . . . alas, not everyone takes the time to read books. They would rather be fed by movies and TV shows alone. So I thought they could watch the cartoon which would at least give them some idea of what is to come. I rented Bakshi's too. I fell asleep as did my wife. What was that man thinking? My daughter who saw the new movie (such a sweet heart, she hadn't read the books and if you guys so much as . . . . anyways,) . . . she remarked, "Hey that movie we saw was a copy of this!" Poor child. I recommended she read the book too. To no avail. I will try subliminal messages in her head banger music so that she may be enlightened. Maybe if it works I can convince her she is a hard working Hobbit.

I really don't want to search the whole board to answer my next question . . . just be a wee bit more polite. I can take sarcasm with the worst of them. So, did anyone bother to attempt the second book as a movie? If they did, what was it? I have a feeling it hasn't been done . . . but, what the heck . . . I'll ask another question. This time don't make me laugh.

Schvenn Of The Schack · 01-03-2002, 08:59 PM

Being a board admin myself I'm more aware of how people are made to feel welcome or not.
That's why I jumped all over tater.

Anyway, no.
The 2nd movie appearantly has not been made into a movie, just very quickly incorporated into the Bakshi film.
That's all.

I personally have liked all the attempts at putting Tolkien's work to film.
You just have to keep in mind the task at hand, the budget and the mediums.
All in all, I think they did decent jobs.

Quazar · 01-03-2002, 10:53 PM

Here goes another attempt at digging in the memory mine. As best as I can remember, it has been a while since I watched the animated LOTR, it ended somewhere in the middle of The Two Towers. I think he ran out of money and had to cobble together an ending. Something like Gandalf and company going on to win many battles to set Middle Earth free. But I think the Return Of The King picked up pretty near where the first cartoon left off, by chance or by design, who knows.

Q

lookingforrings · 01-04-2002, 03:05 AM

Well I did say I fell asleep watching Bakshi's movie. I'll check it out again. Thank you.

bropous · 01-04-2002, 12:22 PM

Yuppers, Bakshi's effort ended after the Rohirrim victory at the Battle of Helms' Deep, however, it omitted the advance of the Huorns which swallowed up the retreat of Saruman's forces, man, half-orc and orcs alike.

It did show Treebeard, but there is this REALLY annoying shot of Merry and Pippin in Treebeard's hands, and for some reason, one of the hobbits pulls his cloak closer around his neck, and it is the weirdest thing, it's like he's trying to be all sultry and seductive! Ewwwww! Take a look at the scene...it's really creepy!

Sam was terrible, Frodo was effeminate in many spots. I loved John Hurt's voice as Strider, but couldn't get the mental image of his scrawny little form behind the voice [apologies, John, wherever you are] off me pate. I loved the soundtrack, though, an excellent theme and counter-theme score which, in my humble Elven Warrior's opinion, was far better than the score done by Howard Shore [Pauly Shore's father? Help me here, folks].

Gollum was quite good, actually. I liked the scene where Sam accuses him of sneaking about, and Gollum takes exception, and then Frodo wakes and asks him what he's been up to, and Gollum snaps, "Sneaking!". Excellent characterization. Too bad it was such a rare moment in the film.

Peter Jackson blew Bakshi out of the water, in my humble opinion.

01-01-2002, 02:34 AM	#1
lookingforrings Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5	An old cartoon There was a cartoon made of the Hobbit, Bakshi's cartoon and then another by someone else of the last two books . . . I thought the last cartoon came out in the 80's. I would like to find the last one. Any one remember? Any one know where to find it? I used to have it on a video tape which I loaned years ago. Thanks!

01-01-2002, 12:03 PM	#2
Darth Tater The man Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: MA Posts: 4,572	sigh the first redundant post of 2002, I can't just close this, I guess I'll be nice to someone who doesn't bother to read the forum first for once and tell them that the God-awefull Rankin-Bass cartoon of Return of the King (complete with gay Sam Gamgee and Elrond of the floating blue stars around his head) is what they're talking about. __________________ Visit the worlds greatest webpage! No, not The Tolkien Trail! Just click this! The Tolkien Trail ~Camelot

01-01-2002, 12:39 PM	#4
Schvenn Of The Schack Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home. Posts: 16	First of all Some people have lives outside messageboards. Secondly, many people are new here and haven't or don't have the time to read every single thread on a board. Thirdly, that kind of response was rude to an extreme. I can see why I am reading on so many boards about how rude and/or snobbish many of the board communities are to the newbies.

01-01-2002, 06:13 PM	#6
*Ben* Retired Ent Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 60,631	Welcome to the board. I agree Tater could have handled that a bit more tactfully. However, when you visit the same board daily for 2 years, I can see how it can be unnerving to have the same topics come up repeatedly. On the other hand, a ban on discussions that already occurred in 1999 can make it hard for new people to join in. VBulletin has a handy search feature. I just tried it and searched for "cartoon" in the J.R.R. Tolkien category and one of the posts I found was this one, which could have answered your questions: http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/show...hlight=cartoon Being a newbie, it's entirely possible that lookingforrings was unaware of the search feature. Plus, the discussion about the movie was actually in the Hobbit forum, because it was originally started about that movie. Thus, even a thorough scan of the LotR movies forum would have produced nothing. I think that the FAQ needs to be expanded. That's definitely one of the administrative projects that needs to be taken care of soon. Personally, I like newbies. They add freshness to the board. Just because someone has been here 2 minutes as opposed to 2 years doesn't make their opinions any less valid. __________________ ---Ben formerly known in the forums as bmilder Owner of The Tolkien Trail and Entmoot. Buy Entmoot shirts and mugs!

01-02-2002, 12:47 PM	#9
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Hang on a sec. The original Rankin-Bass Hobbit, with John Huston as Gandalf, Otto Preminger as Tharanduil, and Orson Bean as Bilbo, came out around Thanksgiving 1975. The impending release of that cartoon spurred me to finally pick up my copy of The Hobbit from my bookshelf where it had gathered dust for a couple of years. I was hooked immediately, and began, in my little corner of Southwest Louisiana, to hunt for the trilogy. Took me til 1977 or 1978 to get Return of the King; got it up here in Colorado Springs on a christmas visit, along with the calendar of the Lord of the Rings by the Brothers Hildebrant [gee I wish they would re-release that one!]. The Bakshi version of The Lord of the Rings came out in 1981 or 1982, if I recall correctly. As stated in another post, I remember well playing the theme in orchestra, newly released, as a junior and senior in high school. That film had a great script, but was too "cartoonish" for me. Seems all the good lines were snatched up by Bakshi's screenplay, maybe that's why not so many direct quotes were used in Peter Jackson's film, observations of copyrights being so bloody important in today's overly litigious society. As for the Rankin-Bass "Return of the King", I never saw it, only one or two stills, but it looked as foolishly cartoonish as the Rankin-Bass "Hobbit". I may track it down one day. Darth Tater: You play the perfect evil administrator! :- ) It's fun having the good cop/bad cop administration [bmilder the "straight man"?]. I gotta admit, though, as a relative "newbie" meself, I wasn't aware of the Search function either. I'll certainly put it to good use in future. All in my humble Entingish opinion.... __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-01-2002, 12:27 PM	#3
lookingforrings Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5	Thanks for your help.

01-01-2002, 05:07 PM	#5
lookingforrings Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5	Thanks Schvenn. Tater made me laugh.

01-01-2002, 08:37 PM	#8
Quazar Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Piedmont North Carolina Posts: 33	Yep Tater, you are correct, give the man a cookie, Bakshi did produce the first animated, over human actors, LOTR. But please bear in mind gentle readers, this was 1975, before computers, before the internet was even a gleam in some demented scientist's mind. Even the Rankin-Bass follow up was done in 1979, the dark ages. I'm not even ashamed to admit I own both tapes.

01-02-2002, 07:02 PM	#10
Quazar Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Piedmont North Carolina Posts: 33	The copyright release date on my tape of "Return Of The King" is 1979. Therefore the LOTR animation had to be some time in the mid-late '70's. I remember going to see it back in the day when there was just one screen per theater, way back in the dark ages.

01-02-2002, 09:22 PM	#11
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Tater... Don't you people delete old threads? As someone who's visited the MEVault Dev Boards for, it must be almost four years now, I know what you're saying but (As someone who's been known to read entire archives in one sitting) do you expect them to pore through everything before posting? Us webheads are the only people who have the time for that stuff anymore. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-02-2002, 09:24 PM	#12
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	One more thing! ... [edited: because you guys were just wating for me to mention that, weren't you? ) __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 01-02-2002 at 09:25 PM.

01-02-2002, 09:59 PM	#13
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Hmmmm. Found a link with an interview with Ralph Bakshi at: http://www.canoe.ca/JamLordOfTheRing...akshi-can.html ...sounds like a whiny little worm to me. Did a crappy job of making a film of Lord of the Rings, and now, in hindsight, is taking pot-shots at Peter Jackson's film ["I've had nothing to do with the live-action version," he says, flatly. "I wasn't contacted, I wasn't asked for the rights to do it, let's just put it that way. I wasn't asked for the rights to do it, no one's ever spoken to me about it..."]. And this: "Understand that I'm not bitching here, this is very important to me. But when you look at (the new film's) Ringwraiths flying through the forests, it's like a scene out of my movie...". Oh, come ON, Ralphie-poo! How in the living name of Hannah is you gonna come up with a Ringwraith that ain't draped in a black cloak and hood? THAT'S STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOOK, Gertrude. On another point, the film is listed as having been released in late 1978, but it must have been in limited release for a while before it came to the sleepy town in southeast Texas I was living in at the time. 1978 just don't seem right. Maybe my memory is slipping... __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-02-2002, 11:46 PM	#14
Schvenn Of The Schack Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home. Posts: 16	Ohhhhhhhh........ok. So we've got a rogue admin. That I can handle. >D BRING 'EM ON!!!

01-03-2002, 02:12 PM	#15
Quazar Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Piedmont North Carolina Posts: 33	Hey, Tater ain't half as bad as some people that were in a 'Magic-The Gathering' chat room that I used to frequent, now there were rome real as%#*les. All experts at everything, and everyone else was dumber than dirt. This place is quite civilized by comparison, being Middle Earth and all. Q

01-03-2002, 08:37 PM	#16
lookingforrings Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5	Sheesh. All I wanted to know was the name of the cartoon. Some of my friends went and saw the new movie, which they said was great but were curious why it ended so abruptly. They were even more dismayed to learn that it would be next year before the next part is released. I had recommended they read the trilogy . . . alas, not everyone takes the time to read books. They would rather be fed by movies and TV shows alone. So I thought they could watch the cartoon which would at least give them some idea of what is to come. I rented Bakshi's too. I fell asleep as did my wife. What was that man thinking? My daughter who saw the new movie (such a sweet heart, she hadn't read the books and if you guys so much as . . . . anyways,) . . . she remarked, "Hey that movie we saw was a copy of this!" Poor child. I recommended she read the book too. To no avail. I will try subliminal messages in her head banger music so that she may be enlightened. Maybe if it works I can convince her she is a hard working Hobbit. I really don't want to search the whole board to answer my next question . . . just be a wee bit more polite. I can take sarcasm with the worst of them. So, did anyone bother to attempt the second book as a movie? If they did, what was it? I have a feeling it hasn't been done . . . but, what the heck . . . I'll ask another question. This time don't make me laugh.

01-03-2002, 08:59 PM	#17
Schvenn Of The Schack Hobbit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home. Posts: 16	Being a board admin myself I'm more aware of how people are made to feel welcome or not. That's why I jumped all over tater. Anyway, no. The 2nd movie appearantly has not been made into a movie, just very quickly incorporated into the Bakshi film. That's all. I personally have liked all the attempts at putting Tolkien's work to film. You just have to keep in mind the task at hand, the budget and the mediums. All in all, I think they did decent jobs.

01-03-2002, 10:53 PM	#18
Quazar Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Piedmont North Carolina Posts: 33	Here goes another attempt at digging in the memory mine. As best as I can remember, it has been a while since I watched the animated LOTR, it ended somewhere in the middle of The Two Towers. I think he ran out of money and had to cobble together an ending. Something like Gandalf and company going on to win many battles to set Middle Earth free. But I think the Return Of The King picked up pretty near where the first cartoon left off, by chance or by design, who knows. Q

01-04-2002, 03:05 AM	#19
lookingforrings Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5	Well I did say I fell asleep watching Bakshi's movie. I'll check it out again. Thank you.

01-04-2002, 12:22 PM	#20
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Yuppers, Bakshi's effort ended after the Rohirrim victory at the Battle of Helms' Deep, however, it omitted the advance of the Huorns which swallowed up the retreat of Saruman's forces, man, half-orc and orcs alike. It did show Treebeard, but there is this REALLY annoying shot of Merry and Pippin in Treebeard's hands, and for some reason, one of the hobbits pulls his cloak closer around his neck, and it is the weirdest thing, it's like he's trying to be all sultry and seductive! Ewwwww! Take a look at the scene...it's really creepy! Sam was terrible, Frodo was effeminate in many spots. I loved John Hurt's voice as Strider, but couldn't get the mental image of his scrawny little form behind the voice [apologies, John, wherever you are] off me pate. I loved the soundtrack, though, an excellent theme and counter-theme score which, in my humble Elven Warrior's opinion, was far better than the score done by Howard Shore [Pauly Shore's father? Help me here, folks]. Gollum was quite good, actually. I liked the scene where Sam accuses him of sneaking about, and Gollum takes exception, and then Frodo wakes and asks him what he's been up to, and Gollum snaps, "Sneaking!". Excellent characterization. Too bad it was such a rare moment in the film. Peter Jackson blew Bakshi out of the water, in my humble opinion. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

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