arwens immortal? and an eowyn question to ponder...

Quickbeam · 12-01-2001, 06:22 PM

i was just looking at lordoftherings.net and I was looking through the definitions of the characters they had. Well when i got to arwen, I already knew that they were making her a bigger role in the movie, but it said that in the movie she would have to choose between love and immortality. Did they just add this to make her a bigger part in the movie, or does this get brought up at all in the book? I thought that the only thing arwen does in the book is sit at the council, and aragorn has a crush on her. This also makes me wonder. Do you think they will make eowyn a bigger part in the next movie?

Comic Book Guy · 12-01-2001, 06:26 PM

Yes the site is right when it says 'Love or Immortality', if she married Aragorn she would become immortal. Later in ROTK she says her choice is the choice of Luthien, to marry the one she loves instead of obeying her fathers wishes to stay with him.

Bacchus · 12-01-2001, 06:57 PM

CBG, I think you typoed. Arwen would have retained the lifespan of the Eldar only if she had departed with Elrond. By remaining in ME with Aragorn, she chose to accept the Gift of Men. (Death)

Darth Tater · 12-01-2001, 07:29 PM

Elves are immortal unless killed in battle. However, marrying a mortal changes their fate.

Quickbeam · 12-01-2001, 08:54 PM

so is she a bigger part in ROTK? if she is, then maybe thats why they show her more in FOTR...

Darth Tater · 12-01-2001, 10:41 PM

Don't ask that question if ya haven't read all the books yet!

emplynx · 12-01-2001, 10:41 PM

Actually Darth Tater, elves can also die from greif. They mostly just can't die from old age...

Bacchus · 12-02-2001, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darth Tater
However, marrying a mortal changes their fate.

This is not true, strictly speaking. Luthien chose mortality to be with Beren, but this was tied to the fact that Beren had been killed by Carcharoth. Arwen chose mortality, but it was tied to her father's choice. The counterexample is Idril. She was not required to forgo her lineage to marry Tuor.

Bantan · 12-02-2001, 02:57 PM

HUH!!!
I dont remember anybody named Arwen in LotR!!!
I thought the movie makers just made her up to add a romance side to the movie!!!

oh well! time to read the books again i thinks!

P.S. you say that this Arwen is going to have a large role in the movie. Do you think she'll become part of the fellowship?

Bacchus · 12-02-2001, 03:20 PM

She's there, but her role is greatly expanded in the movie. In the books, Arwen appears at the banquet celebrating Frodo's recovery at Rivendell. She sends Aragorn's banner to him through Halbarad. And she is present for her wedding to Aragorn. Gimli had planned to give Eomer a radical haircut if Eomer did not acknowledge Galadriel as the hottest babe of all after seeing her, but let him off despite Eomer's assertion that Arwen was better looking.

Wayfarer · 12-02-2001, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bacchus
The counterexample is Idril. She was not required to forgo her lineage to marry Tuor.

But what about Tuor? He gave up his mortality in order to be with her, the story goes. So it can work either way, but someone has to change.

Bacchus · 12-02-2001, 06:09 PM

That's a fair counterargument, Wayfarer. However, I'm not convinced that the cause and effect relationship holds. With both Arwen and Luthien, there were considerations other than their spouses that contributed to the necessity of a choice. I concede that the relation is possible, but unproven logically. We simply do not have enough data points to be able to eliminate all the variables.

Wayfarer · 12-02-2001, 06:45 PM

My argument is this: One of the pair must change destinies, and this need not be from immortal to mortal.

***IronParrot*** · 12-02-2001, 11:39 PM

It's mythical, people. It doesn't need to be practical.

arynetrek · 12-06-2001, 03:07 AM

i agree with IP.

aryne *

12-01-2001, 06:22 PM	#1
Quickbeam Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 35	arwens immortal? and an eowyn question to ponder... i was just looking at lordoftherings.net and I was looking through the definitions of the characters they had. Well when i got to arwen, I already knew that they were making her a bigger role in the movie, but it said that in the movie she would have to choose between love and immortality. Did they just add this to make her a bigger part in the movie, or does this get brought up at all in the book? I thought that the only thing arwen does in the book is sit at the council, and aragorn has a crush on her. This also makes me wonder. Do you think they will make eowyn a bigger part in the next movie?

12-01-2001, 06:57 PM	#3
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	CBG, I think you typoed. Arwen would have retained the lifespan of the Eldar only if she had departed with Elrond. By remaining in ME with Aragorn, she chose to accept the Gift of Men. (Death) __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

12-01-2001, 07:29 PM	#4
Darth Tater The man Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: MA Posts: 4,572	Elves are immortal unless killed in battle. However, marrying a mortal changes their fate. __________________ Visit the worlds greatest webpage! No, not The Tolkien Trail! Just click this! The Tolkien Trail ~Camelot

12-01-2001, 08:54 PM	#5
Quickbeam Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 35	ok so is she a bigger part in ROTK? if she is, then maybe thats why they show her more in FOTR...

12-01-2001, 10:41 PM	#6
Darth Tater The man Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: MA Posts: 4,572	Don't ask that question if ya haven't read all the books yet! __________________ Visit the worlds greatest webpage! No, not The Tolkien Trail! Just click this! The Tolkien Trail ~Camelot

12-01-2001, 06:26 PM	#2
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Yes the site is right when it says 'Love or Immortality', if she married Aragorn she would become immortal. Later in ROTK she says her choice is the choice of Luthien, to marry the one she loves instead of obeying her fathers wishes to stay with him.

12-01-2001, 10:41 PM	#7
emplynx Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,214	Actually Darth Tater, elves can also die from greif. They mostly just can't die from old age...

12-02-2001, 02:57 PM	#9
Bantan Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: lower Texas (a desolate wasteland called the Valley) Posts: 17	HUH!!! I dont remember anybody named Arwen in LotR!!! I thought the movie makers just made her up to add a romance side to the movie!!! oh well! time to read the books again i thinks! P.S. you say that this Arwen is going to have a large role in the movie. Do you think she'll become part of the fellowship? __________________ Bantan IX "The walls have ears...Ican hear them listening"

12-02-2001, 03:20 PM	#10
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	She's there, but her role is greatly expanded in the movie. In the books, Arwen appears at the banquet celebrating Frodo's recovery at Rivendell. She sends Aragorn's banner to him through Halbarad. And she is present for her wedding to Aragorn. Gimli had planned to give Eomer a radical haircut if Eomer did not acknowledge Galadriel as the hottest babe of all after seeing her, but let him off despite Eomer's assertion that Arwen was better looking. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

12-02-2001, 06:09 PM	#12
Bacchus Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 245	That's a fair counterargument, Wayfarer. However, I'm not convinced that the cause and effect relationship holds. With both Arwen and Luthien, there were considerations other than their spouses that contributed to the necessity of a choice. I concede that the relation is possible, but unproven logically. We simply do not have enough data points to be able to eliminate all the variables. __________________ Yet neither by wolf, nor by Balrog, nor by Dragon, would Morgoth have achieved his end, but for the treachery of Men. Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

12-02-2001, 06:45 PM	#13
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	My argument is this: One of the pair must change destinies, and this need not be from immortal to mortal. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-02-2001, 11:39 PM	#14
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	It's mythical, people. It doesn't need to be practical. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

12-06-2001, 03:07 AM	#15
arynetrek Elf Lord Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 610	i agree with IP. aryne *