dol guldur

afro-elf · 11-21-2001, 07:23 AM

gandalf went once and the sauron fled

but at another he entered and found out it was sauron

HOW did you enter presumably undetected?

it is said saruman delayed the a later attack because he wanted the ring
how does that assist saruman?

Legolas · 11-21-2001, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
it is said saruman delayed the a later attack because he wanted the ring
how does that assist saruman?

Dol Guldur was one of Sauron's fortresses. That's why Saruman thought that if it was destroyed, Sauron would be less powerful. So if it is not destroyed, everyone is occupied by Sauron and noone looks to Saruman. Then Saruman can make a search of the Ring and take it if Frodo dies... That's my opinion.

afro-elf · 11-21-2001, 02:36 PM

that sounds cool

adanedhel · 11-21-2001, 03:19 PM

Those are good reasons why Saruman did not want Dol Guldur attacked and probably Saruman took them into account. But the reason Saruman didn't want Dol Guldur attacked was that he thought that the One Ring would seek it's Master, if Sauron were left alone, and Saruman could grab it for himself when it made it's appearance (after the council, Saruman began to search for the Ring near the Gladden Fields).

afro-elf · 11-22-2001, 11:52 PM

how did gandalf enter dol guldor presumably undetected

if sauron fled the 1st time he had to detect gandalf

Xivigg · 11-23-2001, 01:20 AM

you got the order of thing all wrong

gandalf enter Dol Guldur undetected were he saw Sauron retrieve the last of the Drawen ring from his 2 prisoner (Thorin father and grand father if my memories is correct) that's when he discover that the Necromancer was truly Sauron

I think it happen as the 13 Dwarven and Bilbo hean toward Erebor

Then later as the white circle lead an assault toward Dol Guldur
Sauron fleed to Barad Dur Revealing himself to everyone and claiming the title of Master of the middle earth

something like that

adanedhel · 11-23-2001, 02:56 AM

In TA 2063, Gandalf entered Dol Guldur, Sauron retreated to the East to avoid detection by The Wise.

In TA 2460, Sauron returned to Dol Guldur stronger than when he fled (The Wise still only "suspected" that it was Sauron taking shape).

In TA 2850, Gandalf entered Dol Guldur again and discovered that it's master IS Sauron. At this time he also finds Thrain and gets the map and key to Erebor from him before Thrain dies.

It wasn't until TA 2941 (the year of Bilbo's Adventure) that the White Council attacked Sauron in Dol Guldur, he fled, and returned to Mordor in secret.

I'm not sure that Gandalf entered Dol Guldur undetected, I think that maybe the first time Sauron was not powerful enough to counter Gandalf and thus fled. I believe the second time, he was powerful enough to counter Gandalf, but not to defeat him, which is how Gandalf got out.

The last paragraph is just my opinion though, I'm sure there is a better explanation.

afro-elf · 11-23-2001, 09:42 AM

it sounds feasible though

Snowdog · 07-29-2002, 04:38 PM

Dol Gildur has always been an intriguing part of the Middle Earth story.

Findegil · 07-31-2002, 06:58 AM

I don't think there was a combat between Gandalf und Sauron in TA2850. I think Gandalf made a undercover visit to Dol Guldur. He hoped to go undercover to Mordor with Frodo, so why not beliving him going undercover into the lesser fastness of Sauron?

Respectfully
Findegil

Snowdog · 08-05-2002, 04:06 PM

I always believed Gandalf went in undercover then too.

11-21-2001, 07:23 AM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	dol guldur gandalf went once and the sauron fled but at another he entered and found out it was sauron HOW did you enter presumably undetected? it is said saruman delayed the a later attack because he wanted the ring how does that assist saruman? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

11-21-2001, 02:36 PM	#3
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	that sounds cool __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

11-21-2001, 03:19 PM	#4
adanedhel Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chigago, IL Posts: 40	Those are good reasons why Saruman did not want Dol Guldur attacked and probably Saruman took them into account. But the reason Saruman didn't want Dol Guldur attacked was that he thought that the One Ring would seek it's Master, if Sauron were left alone, and Saruman could grab it for himself when it made it's appearance (after the council, Saruman began to search for the Ring near the Gladden Fields). __________________ "Say this to Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot overthrow Morgoth, at least he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest." Feanor

11-22-2001, 11:52 PM	#5
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	how did gandalf enter dol guldor presumably undetected if sauron fled the 1st time he had to detect gandalf __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

11-23-2001, 01:20 AM	#6
Xivigg Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Earth Posts: 495	you got the order of thing all wrong gandalf enter Dol Guldur undetected were he saw Sauron retrieve the last of the Drawen ring from his 2 prisoner (Thorin father and grand father if my memories is correct) that's when he discover that the Necromancer was truly Sauron I think it happen as the 13 Dwarven and Bilbo hean toward Erebor Then later as the white circle lead an assault toward Dol Guldur Sauron fleed to Barad Dur Revealing himself to everyone and claiming the title of Master of the middle earth something like that __________________ Thinking before acting is alway's a good idea.

11-23-2001, 02:56 AM	#7
adanedhel Hobbit Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Chigago, IL Posts: 40	In TA 2063, Gandalf entered Dol Guldur, Sauron retreated to the East to avoid detection by The Wise. In TA 2460, Sauron returned to Dol Guldur stronger than when he fled (The Wise still only "suspected" that it was Sauron taking shape). In TA 2850, Gandalf entered Dol Guldur again and discovered that it's master IS Sauron. At this time he also finds Thrain and gets the map and key to Erebor from him before Thrain dies. It wasn't until TA 2941 (the year of Bilbo's Adventure) that the White Council attacked Sauron in Dol Guldur, he fled, and returned to Mordor in secret. I'm not sure that Gandalf entered Dol Guldur undetected, I think that maybe the first time Sauron was not powerful enough to counter Gandalf and thus fled. I believe the second time, he was powerful enough to counter Gandalf, but not to defeat him, which is how Gandalf got out. The last paragraph is just my opinion though, I'm sure there is a better explanation. __________________ "Say this to Manwe Sulimo, High King of Arda: if Feanor cannot overthrow Morgoth, at least he delays not to assail him, and sits not idle in grief. And it may be that Eru has set in me a fire greater than thou knowest." Feanor

11-23-2001, 09:42 AM	#8
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	it sounds feasible though __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

07-29-2002, 04:38 PM	#9
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	Dol Gildur has always been an intriguing part of the Middle Earth story. __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

07-31-2002, 06:58 AM	#10
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	I don't think there was a combat between Gandalf und Sauron in TA2850. I think Gandalf made a undercover visit to Dol Guldur. He hoped to go undercover to Mordor with Frodo, so why not beliving him going undercover into the lesser fastness of Sauron? Respectfully Findegil

08-05-2002, 04:06 PM	#11
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	I always believed Gandalf went in undercover then too. __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

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