What do you like/dislike about Feanor?

Elvellon · 11-09-2001, 01:05 PM

Let’s see, I hope this is new:

What do you like/dislike about Feanor?

(If this is new I might start a new thread with a new character each week).

Finmandos12 · 11-09-2001, 06:19 PM

Nope, its not new. (Sorry) Look through some of the old threads in The Silmarillion section. We've had this three times in the 7 months i've been here.

Ñólendil · 11-09-2001, 06:24 PM

I don't really take such a view towards characters. As a character, I think he's an essential element to the mythology. He is an essential element. His tragic story of power, pride and hate outlines the great Rebellion and hopeless War of the Exiled Noldor. As in so many other stories, he's the 'badguy' that makes the story interesting (in fact makes the story), even though he dies early on. And he's a different kind of antagonist, too. He made the Silmarilli, beautiful, pure, hallowed, though he himself became jealous of them. His sworn enemy was even Tolkien's Satan. He was fighting the right guy, but he was fighting for the wrong reasons and with no hope for success. This is a man who does not fall into the erroneous 'black & white' label that many put on Tolkien's works.

XRogue · 11-16-2001, 11:37 PM

Well put, Inoldonil.

Anti-heroes are useful creatures.

BTW, I feel pity for Feanor, in spite of himself.

Kirinki54 · 11-20-2001, 11:01 AM

I agree completely with Inoldonil.

But Feanor as a person? What is there to like really? In this world he would probably be classed as a psychopath...?

Elvellon · 11-20-2001, 12:38 PM

Is Feanor a psychopath? Personally I disagree.
Certainly, after the death of is father, and the theft of the Silmarils, Feanor wasn’t entirely rational, but Feanor was a very emotional person to begin with. And we must not forget several things; having lost his mother at birth, Feanor dedicated all his love to his father during is childhood days (and I’m certain that, at the time of the theft of the Silmarills the bound between father and son was the stronger that Feanor felt). He could not help himself to see Indis and her children as intruders. It was this resentment that Morgoth used, kindling strife among the noldorin princes (and if Finarfin was wise enough to not fall into the “trap” Fingolfin and Feanor fell right into it, giving reasons to Feanor fears). Sure, his actions were condemnable, but they were not entirely without cause (if grossly overreacted) and, the worse of them, were the result of unbearable grief and anger. Personally I see him not as a psychopath, not even truly a villain, but a very tragic figure that, under great duress, failed to rein his emotions and brought grief to himself and others.

Darkhalcyon · 11-20-2001, 04:05 PM

Interestng outlooks, but i agree mostly with Evellon. Couldn't you go far enough to comaring him to Hamlet?? I havne't read it in ages but Feanor kind of reminds me of the Tragic Hero

Ñólendil · 11-20-2001, 05:52 PM

I would say rather the tragic villain.

Wayfarer · 11-20-2001, 08:03 PM

Baro! Tragic Anti-Hero

olorin7 · 12-05-2001, 06:46 PM

definetly not a hero. if he was around today, he would be mike tyson. the guy never thought except when he was creating something

afro-elf · 03-08-2002, 07:28 AM

I admire/envy his gifts but he was a !@@##%$ person.

Especially, when he was dying and percieved that Melkor could not be deafeated and STILL held his sons to pursue the Silmarils

Elvellon · 03-08-2002, 08:22 AM

Feanor was a curious person. Never in control of his emotions, mostly a slave of them. By the time he was dying he understood the futility of his war against Morgoth, but his hate and rage didn’t allow him to accept this.

bropous · 03-08-2002, 12:21 PM

Although an essential character to the story, actually "sine qua non" to the plot, I ended up despising Feanor and his rotten punk kids. Feanor is second only to Morgoth in number of elves slaughtered, when all the direct and indirect casualties of his burning hubris are considered. Feanor brought down the glory of the Elves singlehandedly, thrust a "digitus vulgaris" in the face of the Valar, and encouraged the slaughter of his own kin in the pursuit of his stolen costume jewelry. He was evil, in that evil is a lust for power without concern for the fates of others, and his evil infested other elves and caused a rot at the core which led to the eventual downfall of the elves and the intervention of the Valar.

On the other hand, he is the instrument through which the downfall of Morgoth is ultimately achieved. He is a lynchpin in Eru's music and sets into motion a chain of events which puts Morgoth out of the world and into the Void. Without his actions Morgoth would not have been defeated.

So, Feanor was an interesting character, but I don't see him as really the anti-hero, but again, more in line with the Greek heroic tradition, in which a hero is tainted by overwhelming pride which leads to the loss of that which is precious and the eventual downfall of the hero. Hubris is the reson d'etre of Feanor, and I have always disliked characters possessed of this particular flaw.

Nolendil, a question: "He made the Silmarilli, beautiful, pure, hallowed, though he himself became jealous of them." Do you mean "jealous of them" in that he was jealous that anyone else would possess them, or that he was envious of the Silmarils themselves?

afro-elf · 03-08-2002, 10:45 PM

burning hubris

Great verbiage my friend.

If you don't mind me asking what is your occupation?

bropous · 03-09-2002, 10:19 AM

my profession? Why, EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO, of course!

11-09-2001, 01:05 PM	#1
Elvellon Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lindon Posts: 637	What do you like/dislike about Feanor? Let’s see, I hope this is new: What do you like/dislike about Feanor? (If this is new I might start a new thread with a new character each week). __________________ **************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion

11-09-2001, 06:19 PM	#2
Finmandos12 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 327	Nope, its not new. (Sorry) Look through some of the old threads in The Silmarillion section. We've had this three times in the 7 months i've been here. __________________ The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

11-09-2001, 06:24 PM	#3
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I don't really take such a view towards characters. As a character, I think he's an essential element to the mythology. He is an essential element. His tragic story of power, pride and hate outlines the great Rebellion and hopeless War of the Exiled Noldor. As in so many other stories, he's the 'badguy' that makes the story interesting (in fact makes the story), even though he dies early on. And he's a different kind of antagonist, too. He made the Silmarilli, beautiful, pure, hallowed, though he himself became jealous of them. His sworn enemy was even Tolkien's Satan. He was fighting the right guy, but he was fighting for the wrong reasons and with no hope for success. This is a man who does not fall into the erroneous 'black & white' label that many put on Tolkien's works. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-20-2001, 12:38 PM	#6
Elvellon Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lindon Posts: 637	Is Feanor a psychopath? Personally I disagree. Certainly, after the death of is father, and the theft of the Silmarils, Feanor wasn’t entirely rational, but Feanor was a very emotional person to begin with. And we must not forget several things; having lost his mother at birth, Feanor dedicated all his love to his father during is childhood days (and I’m certain that, at the time of the theft of the Silmarills the bound between father and son was the stronger that Feanor felt). He could not help himself to see Indis and her children as intruders. It was this resentment that Morgoth used, kindling strife among the noldorin princes (and if Finarfin was wise enough to not fall into the “trap” Fingolfin and Feanor fell right into it, giving reasons to Feanor fears). Sure, his actions were condemnable, but they were not entirely without cause (if grossly overreacted) and, the worse of them, were the result of unbearable grief and anger. Personally I see him not as a psychopath, not even truly a villain, but a very tragic figure that, under great duress, failed to rein his emotions and brought grief to himself and others. __________________ **************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion

11-20-2001, 04:05 PM	#7
Darkhalcyon Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a boring little town not too far from manhattan Posts: 140	Interestng outlooks, but i agree mostly with Evellon. Couldn't you go far enough to comaring him to Hamlet?? I havne't read it in ages but Feanor kind of reminds me of the Tragic Hero __________________ Absolute power corrupts. Knowledge is power. Study hard, be evil.

11-16-2001, 11:37 PM	#4
XRogue Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2000 Location: D/FW Texas, USA Posts: 345	Well put, Inoldonil. Anti-heroes are useful creatures. BTW, I feel pity for Feanor, in spite of himself.

11-20-2001, 11:01 AM	#5
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	I agree completely with Inoldonil. But Feanor as a person? What is there to like really? In this world he would probably be classed as a psychopath...?

11-20-2001, 05:52 PM	#8
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I would say rather the tragic villain. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-20-2001, 08:03 PM	#9
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Baro! Tragic Anti-Hero __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 11-20-2001 at 08:10 PM.

12-05-2001, 06:46 PM	#10
olorin7 Hobbit Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: cleveland oh Posts: 25	definetly not a hero. if he was around today, he would be mike tyson. the guy never thought except when he was creating something

03-08-2002, 07:28 AM	#11
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I admire/envy his gifts but he was a !@@##%$ person. Especially, when he was dying and percieved that Melkor could not be deafeated and STILL held his sons to pursue the Silmarils __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-08-2002, 08:22 AM	#12
Elvellon Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Lindon Posts: 637	Feanor was a curious person. Never in control of his emotions, mostly a slave of them. By the time he was dying he understood the futility of his war against Morgoth, but his hate and rage didn’t allow him to accept this. __________________ **************************************** "None are more hoplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Reality is just an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein The Caffeine Mantra It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Brazil that the thoughts aquire speed, The hands aquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion... Elvellon Erelion

03-08-2002, 12:21 PM	#13
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Although an essential character to the story, actually "sine qua non" to the plot, I ended up despising Feanor and his rotten punk kids. Feanor is second only to Morgoth in number of elves slaughtered, when all the direct and indirect casualties of his burning hubris are considered. Feanor brought down the glory of the Elves singlehandedly, thrust a "digitus vulgaris" in the face of the Valar, and encouraged the slaughter of his own kin in the pursuit of his stolen costume jewelry. He was evil, in that evil is a lust for power without concern for the fates of others, and his evil infested other elves and caused a rot at the core which led to the eventual downfall of the elves and the intervention of the Valar. On the other hand, he is the instrument through which the downfall of Morgoth is ultimately achieved. He is a lynchpin in Eru's music and sets into motion a chain of events which puts Morgoth out of the world and into the Void. Without his actions Morgoth would not have been defeated. So, Feanor was an interesting character, but I don't see him as really the anti-hero, but again, more in line with the Greek heroic tradition, in which a hero is tainted by overwhelming pride which leads to the loss of that which is precious and the eventual downfall of the hero. Hubris is the reson d'etre of Feanor, and I have always disliked characters possessed of this particular flaw. Nolendil, a question: "He made the Silmarilli, beautiful, pure, hallowed, though he himself became jealous of them." Do you mean "jealous of them" in that he was jealous that anyone else would possess them, or that he was envious of the Silmarils themselves? __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

03-08-2002, 10:45 PM	#14
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	burning hubris Great verbiage my friend. If you don't mind me asking what is your occupation? __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

03-09-2002, 10:19 AM	#15
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	my profession? Why, EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO, of course! __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

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