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09-30-2001, 03:38 PM
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#1 |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: If I told you I would have to kill you
Posts: 159
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SO fordo and sam
Is it just me or are Frodo and Sam gay hobbit lovers. The only thing that got me through book four was the fact the sexual tension was so stong that they might rip each others cloths off at any moment.
My friends say I'm crazy but i have a feeling about this one. What do you think? Play Girl 
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"Off the Record On the Q-T And very HUSH HUSH" Frodo lives! |
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09-30-2001, 03:52 PM
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#2 |
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The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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Your theory is (sadly) shared by many, but is in all honesty rediculous. Tolkien was just about as homophobic as they come (not because of any fault of his own, rather because of the world in which he lived). In his time male companionship was not uncommon, and indeed he spent more time with some of his male friends then he did with his own wife. However, the friendship was in no way sexual, and in those times no one would assume such. Frodo and Sam's relationship is that of the dearest friends. However, in this "sexually liberated" age, any hint of non-heterosexuality is jumped at, and everyone assumes that relationships between males and males or females and females are homosexual, when indeed, as is the case in LOTR, they are simply that of close friends.
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09-30-2001, 04:59 PM
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#3 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Where does what say that Tolkien was homophobic? The only comment I've ever read about coming from him regarding homosexuality was that he hadn't heard of the word in his early teen years.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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09-30-2001, 07:00 PM
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#4 |
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Fowl Administrator
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 53,420
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I haven't seen any specific evidence that he was a homophobe, just that he was a very strong/conservative Catholic.
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All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien |
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09-30-2001, 07:49 PM
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#5 |
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Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
Posts: 7,121
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The relationship depicted by Tolkien between Frodo and Sam is a very special friendship not a sexual relationship. There was a loyalty that Sam had to Frodo as his master, but they were the best of friends. There was no one probably that knew or understood Frodo better then Sam. The love between them was loyalty, devotion and the deepest of feelings between friends, and that is all it was.
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09-30-2001, 08:13 PM
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#6 |
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The man
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: MA
Posts: 4,572
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Tolkien's homophobia is an opinion of my own, after a study of his life. However, I can't stress enough that it exsisted in most people his age, especially in the type of company he kept. If you need examples, one is his dislike for wearing of bright colors (admitedly he liked a bit, but nothing extravagant, he hated extravagance) and his dissapointment at seeing Oxford's faculty turn more liberal and (he assumed at least) homosexual towards the end of his life.
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09-30-2001, 08:54 PM
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#7 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA
Posts: 561
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Re: SO fordo and sam
Quote:
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Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! |
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09-30-2001, 11:11 PM
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#8 |
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Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
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I don't know that it is homophobia, as much as it is that Tolkien is , or was just from the old school so to speak. Different values and morals compared to today. In other words, what was unacceptable behavior back then is not so now. He was a strict Catholic, raised in an era of strict values. I think homosexuality was the furthest thing from his mind when he conjured up the characters of Frodo and Sam. If you want to see just how straight minded he was about love Playgirl, read the Silmarillion and of Beren and Luthien, a couple that he fashioned after his own love affair with his wife Edith.
Last edited by Sister Golden Hair : 09-30-2001 at 11:14 PM. |
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10-01-2001, 01:36 PM
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#9 |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: If I told you I would have to kill you
Posts: 159
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I am so sorry if i have offended anyone in this forum and I do appologise. The fact is I do find Sams behavior just a little camp but i wil conced to the fact that it was probably just my imagination running away with me. I am a teenage girl and you know how much we think about sex and seeing as there is not alot in the book i just had to invent some.
Soz again. Play Girl PS I am this close to finishing it - wish me luck
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"Off the Record On the Q-T And very HUSH HUSH" Frodo lives! |
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10-01-2001, 05:21 PM
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#10 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Quote:
I'm against the assumption -- however likely based on other known facts -- that someone believes something because of what time or place they live in, without evidence. There were white people on Martin Luther King's side, you know. Darth, where's this about JRR Tolkien's dislike of Oxford 'turning homosexual'? And bright colours? My aunt is gay, I haven't noticed her wearing unusually bright colours. I can't imagine JRR Tolkien at least giving bright coloured clothing to Hobbits if he thought that was a sign of homosexuality and disliked it. I bet he thought bright colours were just bright colours.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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10-01-2001, 09:51 PM
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#11 | |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Louis, Mo. USA
Posts: 561
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Quote:
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Ringbearer Hide Witch, hide! The Good Folks come to burn thee! Their keen enjoyment hid behind A Gothic mask of duty! |
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10-02-2001, 02:46 AM
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#12 |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Farthest Khand, the darkest East...
Posts: 442
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There are a number of scenes where male characters are tender to each other..... but not in a hmsxl sense
 :-Aragorn kissing Boromir (in the forehead) -Faramir looking at Aragorn with love after he was healed -Gandalf threatening to uncloak in front of Bilbo (it still cracks me up, sorry!! )-Bombadil telling the hobbits to run naked on the grass.... But any sxl innuendo was probably unintentional and only in the mind of the reader.  |
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10-02-2001, 08:44 AM
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#13 |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Tampa
Posts: 327
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Back then, people just didn't think about gay behavior. I know you're just kidding easterlinge but remember, men in Italy kiss.
And for the record, me being a conservative I have to say this... Just because you think gay behavior is wrong, doesn't mean you are homophobic (means that you have an irrationalfear of gays). He just disapproved of that behavior.
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The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. |
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10-02-2001, 05:21 PM
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#14 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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As a liberal talking to a conservative, I'm glad you feel the fear of gays is irrational, not to mention the fact that you acknowledge it as fear
 But how do you know that Tolkien disapproved of homosexuality? Besides the time period he lived in, I mean.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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10-03-2001, 01:34 PM
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#15 |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: If I told you I would have to kill you
Posts: 159
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Woo hoo! I'm finished! And the ending was so nice. I'm glad Sam and Rosie got it together. I would have thought Frodo would have been killed off at the Cracks of Doom but he mad it through and prevented sam form killing himself - woohoo! Finished!
Now what will I read? Play Girl
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"Off the Record On the Q-T And very HUSH HUSH" Frodo lives! |
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10-03-2001, 03:50 PM
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#16 |
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Queen of Nargothrond
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Akron, Ohio - USA
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Try the Silmarillion, but be prepared. It is tough, but a fantastic book.
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10-03-2001, 04:20 PM
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#17 |
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Saviour of Entmoot Admiral
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: NC/NJ (no longer Same place as bmilder.)
Posts: 61,986
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I finished as well. Last night
although I've known how it ended for quite some time now
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10-07-2001, 07:34 PM
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#18 | |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lothlorien
Posts: 216
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Re: Re: SO fordo and sam
Quote:
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"When evil people come to destroy me, when my enemies and foes attack me, they will stumble and fall. Though a mighty army surrounds me, my heart will know no fear." -Psalms 27:2-3 -Dare you venture into Gollum's Lair? JESUS LIVES! |
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10-07-2001, 08:49 PM
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#19 |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Farthest Khand, the darkest East...
Posts: 442
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I forgot to mention Legolas and Gimli running off together in Lothlorien after the "blindfold incident".
Sightseeing of course, and perfectly innocent. Unless you have an Orcish mind.  |
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10-07-2001, 11:16 PM
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#20 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: California
Posts: 60,865
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Now, now Sakata, plenty of grown-up people have their heads in the toilet too. Remember: one person's toilet is another person's perfectly reasonable sexual-innuendo theory. Or something similar. Say also that he that farts in Church sits in his own pew.
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Falmon -- Dylan |
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