Nature of Elvish Consciousness

[easterlinge]

I wonder about the consciousness of Elves. It seems that the boundary between memory, thought, dream and reality is pretty blurred for the Elves.

Gimli remarked that he heard that for Elves, memory is like living experience. Legolas is capable of dreaming while walking. Can an Elf always distinguish past memory from present reality, or does he have to learn?

Elves are also able to project their thoughts on reality: Elvish songs can be "seen" and "experienced" by listeners.Craftsmen put their thought into what they make and imbue it with special qualities. Elvish minds can influence the very reality around them, it seems.

Samwise remarked that when he was in Lorien, he felt as if he "were in a song". Maybe Nenya amplified Galadriel's natural Elvish talent of projecting her thought on reality? In which case for the most powerful Elves, the boundary separating thought from reality must be tenuous indeed.

The boundaries of memory, thought, and reality must be even more tenuous for the Valar/Ainur, when you consider that the entire Universe is made of the Music of the Ainur.

When the Three Rings were disrupted and Lorien's "dream" ended, was Galadriel hurt or weakened? A blow to Lorien was a blow to her mind, as Lorien was partly her idealized mental projection on reality. Maybe the Valar were so reluctant to intervene directly because it might end up hurting themselves?

One last thing.... THingol's first meeting with Melian the Maia in Nan Elmoth forest. Thingol seemed pretty smitten by Melian, which is natural, perhaps. But Melian herself was entranced by Thingol's presence. What was going on? Was it a feedback thing? THingol saw Melian, and projected what he saw, and Melian's beauty was sort of enhanced by Thingol's perception/projection. This feedback locked Thingol in for years.

Melian probably had heard about the Children of Iluvatar, but her first meeting with one of them gave her a very good impression: Elves were more good-looking than she expected. She projected her response on reality, and being a Maia, the effect was even more powerful: THingol was enhanced in her eyes.

This projection thing is not just a psychic effect on the mind of the observer, it alters reality itself. THingol may have ended up more powerful than ever because of Melian's love.

[Spock]

I dare say that waking, dreaming, and unconsciousness in general could be viewed as some do simultaneous realities; multiple time lines. If each were considered a frame of a movie they would exist independently and yet be a part of the whole at the same time only giving the illusion that they were totallly different.
Elves are very complicated.

[galadriel]

It's interesting to note that "Lorien" means dream. Irmo, who is often called Lorien after his gardens in Valinor, is the master of visions and dreams.

Galadriel certainly named her land after the original Lorien intentionally. In Sindarin, Lothlorien means "goldenflower", but if translated as a mixture of Sindarin and Quenya, as Treebeard does, it's "dreamflower".

[Erewe]

I've always wondered if, in their "waking dreams", the Elves are able to interact over distances. And if so, how many at a time? Would it be like a dream world? An alternate Reality existing only for the Elves? Probably not, but it'd be a pretty cool topic for an essay, methinks.

--Erewë

[easterlinge]

YOu may be interested to know that in Muslim belief, it's possible to bump into each other in dreams. If you see your Ma in a dream, it's probably really her.

If this applies to Elves too, then the answer is yes.

[Erewe]

Really? Hmmm. Cool

--Erewë

PS, I'll have to do some digging on the subject.

[Finmandos12]

I think you're all a little off on some of this. Lothlorien was originially called Laurilindorian, "the valley of the singing gold", trees, that is. Nenya had the power to preserve it, (remember when Sam said it seemed like no time had elapsed. The ring did not have anything to do with dreams. It was named Lorien after the gardens of Lorien in Aman.

[galadriel1]

Holy logins, Batman! I am finally able to post! LOL

Yes, Elves ARE quite complicated!


Oh, btw:
This is galadriel1 from the old board (or as Anduin refers to me - Gabby LOL). Galadriel and I are two different people. Some of you seem to think we are one and the same. Just to inform you all. (I see you also like piano, galadriel. Cool.)

Anyway, great to see you all once again.
Have a great day!

[galadriel]

Hey galadriel1! sorry I kind of stole your name. it's my posting name at fanfiction.net and I was feeling unoriginal when I signed up for Entmoot, so I used the same one.

When I said that Lothlorien was named after the original Lorien, I was referring to both the person and the place. Sorry for the confusion.

I mentioned the whole dream thing in response to easterlinge's comments about the Elven psyche and the "dream" of Lorien. It seems to me that Lothlorien is a land of living dreams, preserving the memory of the greatness of the Eldar of Middle-earth. Thus Lorien is the perfect name.

[Ñólendil]

Laurelindórenan was the name Finmandos.

[galadriel1]

Heya galadriel - no problem. You know that old saying - Great minds think alike! LOL
I just wanted people to realize we WERE 2 different posters is all and avoid confusion.

[easterlinge]

I remember a passage in "FOTR" which said that in Rivendell, there was memory of the Elder Days, but in Lothlorien, it was as if the Fellowship had stepped into the Elder Days themselves.

"You feel the power of the Lady" said Haldir.

Galadriel's use of Nenya to interfere with nature was obviously more drastic than Elrond's use of Vilya.

Or Cirdan's use of Narya while he had it. Since Cirdan later gave his ring to Gandalf and made do without it, I reckon the Grey Havens were the least affected by the Three Rings' failure. Lorien would be most affected and be only be a pale shadow of its past, while Rivendell (it was the only equivalent of a University in the North) would lose a lot of its learning and lore but remain intact.

Were the THree inherently different, or were they simply wielded differently? Galadriel seems to have used hers to stop Time in its tracks, Elrond used his to strengthen memory and learning and preserve things from the Elder Days and remember things as they used to be, Cirdan seems to have used Narya to strengthen his Elves' hearts and minds while things fell and crumbled all around them.

I'd be interested to know what Martinez thinks, but he rarely peeks in these days. Does he even know Entmoot has moved?