Employment and Unemployment

[Valandil]

OK - first of all - as hard as it may be, I don't want this to become a political thread.

Second - I don't really want pity, or anything like that.

The past couple years have been rough though. We're still making it, still doing alright - but it has not been pleasant. And it may get rougher still.

I mostly want to see if others here are going through the same thing, or if you know others who are. I have started to feel rather isolated at times - although I maintain relationships with family and friends, and at church. I often feel like I'm 'the unemployed guy' though - and everyone always asks how the job search is going (which is nice - but it's hard because it has been so drawn out and... I have never been able to give a good answer). And I wonder if some think I'm just not trying hard enough, not doing enough, SHOULD find a way to be working, etc... I don't really know what anyone thinks, of course. Part of the problem is I have too much time on my hands, sometimes (though I try to find ways to keep busy). I'm also concerned about possible erosion of professional skills, through disuse.

To fill you in on some basics of my situation: I'm an architect. In fall of '08, everything slowed down sharply in my profession. I was laid off from my job in March of '09. I did a little freelance work for other architects, and I managed to do a few small jobs myself - but have had nothing to do for the past several months. We've mostly made it on Unemployment Benefits (and I thank God - and our Federal Government - even those socialist liberal legislators who keep extending it! - and my in-debt-over-its-head state of Illinois - for it), and very little more. The great news is - by the grace of God, I'm still up to date on utilities, taxes and my mortgage - after 22 months of living this way. It doesn't even seem possible. But frankly, it has gotten hard to imagine working again. And... I feel so purposeless at times, although I've never believed that my sense of purpose was determined by my job or my occupation. One thing that's looming though... I'm nearing the 99 week limit of benefits and may need to make a major shift in strategy - like putting the house on the market and moving to live someplace cheap, and depleting what little is in my 401(k) to help us get through that transition.

Anyway - I thought about putting this in the Venting Thread, but decided to try it in its own place.

Anyone else going through this now? Do you know someone who is? A close friend or family member?

[Valandil]

And... for just a little bit of good news... for all those resumes I send out, I FINALLY had an actual, real-live, INTERVIEW this past Friday. It would be a position related to my field - a Capital Developments Supervisor for a downstate school district that plans to build some new schools. It would likely require a move (3 hours south of here - back to where I went to college). I was on the long list - among a group of 6 who interviewed. Most of us were unemployed architects from the Chicago area. Anyway - I find out soon, maybe tomorrow, whether I get called back to interview among the short-list candidates.

BTW - I saw hard numbers indicated that employment of Architects in the US is about 75% what it was in summer of 2008. I've heard varying numbers about the rate in Chicago - but commonly hear about 50% unemployment. Once you lose a job - your chances of getting another are very slim right now. Those who advertise a position usually get 100 resumes or more - US government jobs included (I've applied for many of those lately - and those are a whole different kind of beast to apply for). So... it's tough out there, and doesn't look to be getting any better for awhile.

[Rían]

Whew! Those figures are really rough!!

I'm sorry to hear that - unemployment stinks at any level, but with a family - I wish I had something I could offer you beside a Moothug and my prayers, but you have those, for what they're worth.

I've always loved your drawings - I sure wish your job market was better! It's hard when you have skills and desire, and the market just isn't there *another Moothug*

[The Gaffer]

I have enormous amounts of sympathy for your situation Karl. Best of luck with the job hunt, and all I can say is stick at it.

It is the same story over here for architects. One chum of mine has reduced his staff from 20 to 4; my sister runs a firm and their interior designers are run off their feet whilst the architects are twiddling their thumbs.

I guess it is a hangover from the artificially inflated property boom: there is a glut of empty buildings worldwide, and with the general financial squeeze, people are going to refit what they've got rather than build new.

The longest I have experienced unemployment was for 6 months and that was bad enough. What you say about skills atrophy is so true.

It does make you appreciate the Welfare State, though.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Best of luck with the interview, and a few prayers your direction. I have a good friend who was unable to get a job for well over a year, and I know it was an incredibly painful time for him.

[Earniel]

Here's hoping you'll make the short-list, Val.

I have a friend who is a doctor in biology. Unemployed now for four months. She had a job in a government facility and while we were all a bit jealous of that, the downpart of it was that with Belgium being without a government for so long (200 days and counting) there was no one in office able to extend her contract even though there was work and funding to keep her on. Talk about frustrating. They had just bought a house. Luckily her husband still has a job.

Now she's struggling in a very tiny market (a lot of doctors in biology can't find a job) but with little luck of scoring one of the few jobs available for her qualifications if she's honest about their baby-wish.

[Mari]

An American friend of mine has / had the same problem. She was laid off a few years ago and while continuing the search for a job in her field, she took jobs as janitor etc. to keep going. Last year she decided to give up on her field and she is now back in school on a government grant for unemployed people or something (not quite sure about the details) studying for something technical in a field where there are many vacancies. I think the grant was related to her choosing a field which needs a lot of people, but I'm not sure.
Myself, I tried looking for a job after graduation but either don't get a reply, or get a negative one. I've been invited for an interview once and not invited back because I was too smart, would get bored and would not be worth the investment, so I too decided to go back to school full time to learn something practical (my previous studies taught me many things, but few of them practical...)
My dad almost lost his job last year, but he was one of the two who were allowed to stay. But of course knowing he might lose his job we were already trying to figure out what to do about living expenses, my studies (since I'm sort of living off my parents), my sister's studies (same with her) and other money-related things we now take for granted. It was tough because you don't want your father to lose his job, but if he won't dozens of others will and they've got family to support as well.

I'm not sure if me telling you this helps in any way, but I would like you to know that I doubt people will think 'what a lazy bum, he should get up and get himself a job', especially if they know you. The jobmarket is tight and you're definitely not the only one who can't find a job. And if you get a job, someone else won't. So it all sucks
Anyway, I hope you will find a job or a way or whatever. Don't give up!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Mari

I've been invited for an interview once and not invited back because I was too smart, would get bored and would not be worth the investment, so I too decided to go back to school full time to learn something practical (my previous studies taught me many things, but few of them practical...)

That reminds me of a story I heard about a guy in a tough job market who was "overqualified" - finally, he listed his PhD under "hobbies and interests" instead of under "education" because he kept getting told he was overqualified for the job

Are there related jobs that you can get qualified for with a minimum of schooling with a degree in architecture as a foundation? If you can get any kind of educational funding assistance benefit, that would help with your skill set and expose you to a different set of people, maybe. I don't know - I'm just trying to brainstorm - is there some type of school loan program in the unemployment benefits where you don't start paying back until you get a job? *more Moothugs*

[Mari]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

That reminds me of a story I heard about a guy in a tough job market who was "overqualified" - finally, he listed his PhD under "hobbies and interests" instead of under "education" because he kept getting told he was overqualified for the job

I too took off being a member of Mensa under 'free time' (which in the Netherlands can include everything from hobby to volunteer work to following cooking classes) since some people actually knew what it was and got scared.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Are there related jobs that you can get qualified for with a minimum of schooling with a degree in architecture as a foundation? If you can get any kind of educational funding assistance benefit, that would help with your skill set and expose you to a different set of people, maybe. I don't know - I'm just trying to brainstorm - is there some type of school loan program in the unemployment benefits where you don't start paying back until you get a job? *more Moothugs*

I think that's what my friend did. If you'd like I can ask her about it, Valandil?

[The last sane person]

*raises hand* I have to say, this thread scares me. I've just been layed off; last week actually. I'm still going to school, and will be finishing off my Cisco Systems training as a system admin/technician. I guess it varies from state to state, but I've had a few good bites and found the job I had pretty quickly, and with minimal fuss. I really wonder what is up with the job market and these funny numbers and stats that are being thrown around, as well as what the guiding characteristics that they draw from.

Really hope I find another job soon, these student loans are killers! Good luck Karl, in your search. I'll say a string of prayers for us both!

[Tessar]

My sympathies to you unemployed folk.... that is such a scary, difficult situation.

My dad has been lucky... he's switched jobs many times in the past few years, but has always found a new job fairly quickly because he is a CPA, and those are always in demand pretty much no matter how bad the economy is.

[BeardofPants]

Karl, that sounds awful. I can only imagine what a situation like that must do your mental well-being. I guess I'll know soon enough; I'm moving to San Francisco, and the visa stipulates a mandatory 3 month stand down period before I can start job hunting, ... and I have no idea how receptive the market is going to be to my particular skill set.

[Insidious Rex]

Its really quite amazing that youve been able to juggle things successfully all that time without getting behind in mortgage, bills etc. Thats hard to do under these conditions. I too have friends who have been out of work for years and it has really been a struggle for a lot of them. I am fortunate to still be employed but have been pushed to the bone in terms of what I make and what I owe. Im now at a point where Im paying hundreds of dollars more a month in bills than Im taking in which I cant sustain forever. Ill burn through my savings soon... So Im in the process of restructuring loans but its a lot harder to do that nowadays when banks are skin flint about credit and wont loan to you unless you have solid gold credit. But as hard as its been I always remind myself how much worse things could be. Thank goodness for what I DO have and the support I get from family and friends.

Youve probably looked into all options by now of course but what about academic opportunities? Had a friend who did architecture, lost his job 3 years ago and got a position as a professor at a local community college. Its something at least.

[Tessar]

Hmmm, that is a thought... but from what I hear teaching positions are getting really hard to get, these days.

[katya]

I have my little subbing job, which pays what it needs to pay more or less, but yeah, unemployment has been a recurring problem for me and my honey too, over the past few years. Either one or the other of us doesn't have a job, frequently. Now, I still haven't graduated, but I'm honestly not in a huge hurry because yeah, teaching jobs are terrible to find. One of my friends said he didn't get a job he applied for, but couldn't feel too bad because he was up against at least 80 other people. Another friend was dead set on getting one, and ended up having to move to Idaho (from Michigan) to find one.

So yeah, we're doing pretty ok with money now- all the bills are paid, rent is getting paid on time. Lots and lots of debt and stuff in collections but no utilities in danger of getting shut off or anything. Hopefully be able to start paying stuff off soon.

[Valandil]

Thanks for all the kind words everyone. A few updates and responses:

I did get a letter after my interview indicating that I was NOT one of the candidates moving on to the next round. Like I said though - at least it was nice to go to an interview.

I keep applying for more jobs as I see them, and I'll take work on my own if it comes across my path.

Job prospects - generally seem much better for the well-educated (architects being one particular exception) and for the young (architects being no exception). So I think a lot of you will have better prospects than I seem to have right now.

Training - this is the part that seems odd to me. In Illinois, if you do job training in a particular week, it appears to knock you out of receiving your unemployment benefit. One time soon after my layoff I took a free 3-hour session on a software package - that was offered to unemployed architects. When asked the question, "did you receive training in this.... week?" - I pressed "1" for yes, quite proudly. Instead of my benefit, I got a notice to report to my Unemployment Office. I explained what happened to the guy there, he restored by benefit - and told me I should never answer 'yes' to that question.

I guess the underlying philosophy is - if you're in job training, or going to school - you are not 'unemployed'.

Teaching - not a lot of those. I particularly went after one opening about a year ago. It was near me, and at the only Christian school in the US that offers Architecture. They had two openings, but I didn't get either.

Anyway - I'll be doing something soon. I'll keep you guys posted. Don't worry about me (though prayers are appreciated). I'm quite sure we'll make it.

[Valandil]

Actually, I don't want this thread to be all about me though. I'm more interested in hearing about where others are with this.

[Midge]

For variety, I've been having problems finding a job. My situation is actually rather unique.

Firstly, my husband works as a phlebotomist for the local hospital. He works full-time hours. He's going to school part-time for a difficult degree, though, so he wants to cut back on his hours. He is the main source of income for our household.

I work part-time hours for my University - a job I have to keep for a scholarship. However, I'm trying to find another job to supplement my husband's so he can cut down on hours. I have been looking for more than a year. Can't get a thing.

Fortunately, due to Obamacare, I don't need to find a job that provides benefits til I'm 26 (yay idiotic politics!*), so my job market may have just opened up a wider variety of jobs.

*I know nothing about this that is sophisticated enough for that healthcare thread. What I said is my input and I have nothing to support that. [/disclaimer]

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Midge

For variety, I've been having problems finding a job. My situation is actually rather unique.

Firstly, my husband works as a phlebotomist for the local hospital. He works full-time hours. He's going to school part-time for a difficult degree, though, so he wants to cut back on his hours. He is the main source of income for our household.

I work part-time hours for my University - a job I have to keep for a scholarship. However, I'm trying to find another job to supplement my husband's so he can cut down on hours. I have been looking for more than a year. Can't get a thing.

Fortunately, due to Obamacare, I don't need to find a job that provides benefits til I'm 26 (yay idiotic politics!*), so my job market may have just opened up a wider variety of jobs.

*I know nothing about this that is sophisticated enough for that healthcare thread. What I said is my input and I have nothing to support that. [/disclaimer]

Bad news- if you live in a Republican-governed state you may be about to lose your health-care insurance:

The judge declined to immediately enjoin, or suspend, the law pending appeals, a process that could last two years. But he wrote that the federal government should adhere to his declaratory judgment as the functional equivalent of an injunction. That left confusion about how the ruling might be interpreted in the 26 states that are parties to the legal challenge.

The insurance mandate does not take effect until 2014. But many new regulations are already operating, like requirements that insurers cover children with pre-existing health conditions and eliminate lifetime caps on benefits. States are also preparing for a major expansion of Medicaid eligibility and the introduction of health insurance exchanges in 2014.

David B. Rivkin Jr., a lawyer for the states, said the ruling relieved the plaintiff states of any obligation to comply with the health law. "With regard to all parties to this lawsuit, the statute is dead," Mr. Rivkin said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/us...ml?_r=1&ref=us

Wisconsin Attorney-General:

"Judge Vinson declared the health care law void and stated in his decision that a declaratory judgment is the functional equivalent of an injunction. This means that, for Wisconsin, the federal health care law is dead -- unless and until it is revived by an appellate court. Effectively, Wisconsin was relieved of any obligations or duties that were created under terms of the federal health care law. What that means in a practical sense is a discussion I'll have in confidence

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plu...neral_hea.html

[Tessar]

My mom went through something very similar with her unemployment, Valandil, when she lost her bank job a few years back. She also learned to avoid the "Free Training," thing.

We're all a little anxious now, though, as she prepares to enter law school. She's convinced that, if she can get through the program, she'll get hired to a very good job. My dad is convinced that she's about to put us 90k in debt and she'll never get hired because she's older (48, probably 51 when she graduates) and because supposedly a lot of people are getting law degrees to find work, and so there's a glut of lawyers on the market.

Meanwhile I'm seriously considering trying to get an Accounting degree rather than Finance because apparently you're more likely to get hired as an accountant, and because you are more likely to be able to get part-time work as an accountant. The job market is definitely playing a role in my education decisions.

Mind you this is all so that I can hopefully become the next Renee Fleming Nathan Gunn, and not live in total poverty on my way to become the next great American soprano great baritone.