Kindles/Nooks

[EllethValatari]

This is a very controversial topic in my classroom, so I thought I might bring it up here.

Are electronic books bad?
Should they even be considered books? If so, explain.
If not, explain, and are they missing part of the essence of a true book? Should we use them, or should we buy actual, material books?

Any opinions?

[Jonathan]

The electronic book is often looked down upon, it seems. To avoid letting the electronic book get off to a defensive start this early in this thread, I'll fling the question back to you if I may.

Why shouldn't we use them, when it's obvious they have quite a few advantages?
Why should one even think electronic books are inherently bad? Why shouldn't they be considered books when they contain the same words and phrases as a genuine book?

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by EllethValatari

Are electronic books bad?

If you are referring to the actual machine (hardware) itself, then obviously the answer is no . The machines are not bad. If you are referring to the stories themselves, then that will depend on the story in question. If you are simply throwing this one out as a general, "what do you think of them?" then my answer would be that I am absolutely all for them .

Should they even be considered books? If so, explain.

I'll do the same as Jonathan and sort of reverse the question: Why shouldn't they be considered books? They can contain the same material, and in fact in many cases considerably more material, as a paper bound book. One of the few arguments I could see would be that things like pop-up books and art books would lose their charm, but that may actually depend more on the technology being used. In fact, I could see an electronic 'art book' being just stunning some day when the technology for the ultra-crisp resolution is more common.


I am not a person who loves a book just for the feel of a book in my hands, I love books purely for the stories and information they contain. I also think electronic books, when made more commercially viable, might be incredible resource savers when it comes to papers and inks. Obviously there are incredible economic ramifications if everything goes electronic.


But then I also sort of feel that this may be something like the radio. People said that TV would kill the radio, and that by now there would be no radio at all... which is obviously not true. I think a lot of people are afraid that material books will vanish entirely if electronic books become popular, but I seriously doubt that will happen. People will likely always want SOME things in physical book format.

[Mari]

Besides, for someone who preferably brings 10 to 15 books on her vacation, an e-reader is a blessing. Saves a lot of space in your backpack
But, reading from an e-reader will be difficult when it's sunny because of the reflection, just like when you're working on your laptop. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by EllethValatari

Are electronic books bad?
Should they even be considered books? If so, explain.
If not, explain, and are they missing part of the essence of a true book? Should we use them, or should we buy actual, material books?

This phrasing reminds me very much of school, you're really into this essay-writing thing, aren't you?

In any case, to answer it: no, they aren't bad. They're just a technological alternative to the real thing. And sure, electronic books have advantages and disadvantages that can play a part in your decision to use them. I don't see them replace paper books anytime soon, just as the MP3 player hasn't eliminated CD's yet, and CD's themselves failed to deliver a death-blow to records (who are in fact making a come-back). Although I can imagine electronic books eventually taking up a good portion of the book market.

Paper books need trees and printing materials to be produced, electronic book-readers will also need materials to be produced, and a constant supply of energy to keep functioning. Whatever technology you prefer, you will leave an ecological footprint either way.

I like paper books because for one they come without a battery, or can't have software problems. And I only want to stare at a screen for so long each day. But I do not see that leading to me never buying electronic books. They have their uses. They are easier to get rid off if I don't like them after reading. They would significantly reduce the weight of reading material I take along on holiday, although I won't be able to read them on the beach like a paper book.

And just imagine when you're camping on some remote mountain and reading the exciting, big final of your book, only to have your reader shut down due to a low battery. Noooooo! Add to that that I can read my parents' old books, while I don't imagine my children will be able to do the same with the old electronic book reader they may inherit from me.

As said before, they have uses and shortcomings.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Tessar

But then I also sort of feel that this may be something like the radio. People said that TV would kill the radio, and that by now there would be no radio at all... which is obviously not true. I think a lot of people are afraid that material books will vanish entirely if electronic books become popular, but I seriously doubt that will happen. People will likely always want SOME things in physical book format.

I always say the same thing, only with movies and live theatre.

Originally Posted by Earniel

In any case, to answer it: no, they aren't bad. They're just a technological alternative to the real thing.

I think this captures my feelings on the matter. Of course they aren't "bad" ("There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book," after all ), and of course they are "real books." But, there's just that something extra about the crinkle of paper that will make me always prefer physical books. Also, you can find extra cool stuff with paper books, such as older books, first editions, deluxe editions, and, for second-hand books, notes left by the last owner. I have one second-hand Lovecraft book with margins absolutely packed with what can only be described as occultic notes; an awesome bonus you would never get with e-books. I have a tiny Book of Common Prayer that fits in the palm of my hand, and which was given to someone by the name of Archer in 1877. The list just goes on of awesome bonuses you can find with paper books, that e-books will never be able to provide. That said, there is nothing "wrong" with e-books; there's just that little something extra with paper.

[EllethValatari]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

This phrasing reminds me very much of school, you're really into this essay-writing thing, aren't you?

No, not exactly. This thread was started out of pure interest. I just wanted to see what people would say. Interesting topic, too.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Also, you can find extra cool stuff with paper books, such as older books, first editions, deluxe editions, and, for second-hand books, notes left by the last owner. I have one second-hand Lovecraft book with margins absolutely packed with what can only be described as occultic notes; an awesome bonus you would never get with e-books. I have a tiny Book of Common Prayer that fits in the palm of my hand, and which was given to someone by the name of Archer in 1877. The list just goes on of awesome bonuses you can find with paper books, that e-books will never be able to provide. That said, there is nothing "wrong" with e-books; there's just that little something extra with paper.

That's another thing! A friend of mine found a library notice once in an old book he purchased, we had fun tracking down the notice to a women's regiment during the great war.

Maybe in a couple of years when the technology has advanced further, e-books can be traded between users and maybe one can leave electronic bookmarkers or margin notes on e-books.

Originally Posted by EllethValatari

No, not exactly. This thread was started out of pure interest. I just wanted to see what people would say. Interesting topic, too.

Yes, it is an interesting topic, and a current one too.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Maybe in a couple of years when the technology has advanced further, e-books can be traded between users and maybe one can leave electronic bookmarkers or margin notes on e-books.

Even so, you still wouldn't have the coolness factor of having palm-sized books that are older than your grandparents' grandparents.

[BeardofPants]

I have a kindle app on my iPhone and it's awesome sauce. I love that I can buy books that I would consider more disposable, for cheaper (i.e. only read 'em once). I suppose for books like LOTR, it would be hard for me to imagine reading electronically, since there's definitely a tactile element involved (flicking backwards & forwards between text & maps is definitely part of the experience).

I would say that the answer depends on what you are reading.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Cheap Kindle-books would be AWESOME for textbooks.

[BeardofPants]

Not to mention that the ctrl f function would make reading text books/journals so much easier! The amount of times in essay writing that I'd find a great quote, and then lose it again after reading 25 other journal articles. QUOTE! Where did you go??

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Even so, you still wouldn't have the coolness factor of having palm-sized books that are older than your grandparents' grandparents.

True, but your grandchildren's grandchildren might... "Wow, this e-reader is from the naughties! That's like last century. Look at all the clunky code!"

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Cheap Kindle-books would be AWESOME for textbooks.

Amen! The future students will not know how lucky they'll be if one day they just have to carry a little pad containing all their textbooks whereas I remember the days I went to school carrying several kilos worth of books.

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Not to mention that the ctrl f function would make reading text books/journals so much easier! The amount of times in essay writing that I'd find a great quote, and then lose it again after reading 25 other journal articles. QUOTE! Where did you go??

Right there with you. There are times enough I have caught myself briefly looking for the ctrl F function before remembering that paper books don't come with it.

[Midge]

I will say this - they are EXCELLENT for books which are in the public domain. I have a Sony E-book Reader (not a Kindle or Nook, but a lot like the iPod, they seem more exclusive in software, etc.). You can go to one of several websites and browse through wonderful old books and not pay a penny for them, where if you went to Barnes and Noble, you'd have to pay at least $5.

On the note of readability, I recently read "The Count of Monte Cristo" on my e-book reader. For those of you who haven't read it, 1. I recommend reading it, and 2. It's 1,000 pages long (or something like that). I had no trouble flicking back and forth between pages, and it was easier to say, "Oh! I've heard that name before! Where was it?" You just double click on it and then search for it.

I'm pretty excited because C.S. Lewis goes public domain in 3 years. Public domain comes 50 years after death. We got a while with Tolkien. (this goes for audiobooks too).

[Comic Book Guy]

I'm no Luddite, but I think I'll always prefer the traditionally publishing form. Mostly because I like developing a collection of books, strewn all over the house in proper eccentric philosopher style.

[EllethValatari]

Originally Posted by Comic Book Guy

I'm no Luddite, but I think I'll always prefer the traditionally publishing form. Mostly because I like developing a collection of books, strewn all over the house in proper eccentric philosopher style.

That is my goal exactly! I am and always will be adding to my collection, and I plan to have them laying on many single shelves throughout my house when I have one of my own. No library shelving for me!

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I used to be like that, but now I've gotten SICK of having to move all my books (currently, I have six boxes), so I'm constantly trimming my library. One day, I'll finally be settled down, and able to let it grow organically.

Originally Posted by Earniel

True, but your grandchildren's grandchildren might... "Wow, this e-reader is from the naughties! That's like last century. Look at all the clunky code!"

Pfft, who gives a damn about future generations! I want the cool books!

Besides, I think it's highly unlikely that there will be functioning e-readers that are 100+ years old.

[EllethValatari]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

I used to be like that, but now I've gotten SICK of having to move all my books (currently, I have six boxes), so I'm constantly trimming my library. One day, I'll finally be settled down, and able to let it grow organically.



Pfft, who gives a damn about future generations! I want the cool books!

Besides, I think it's highly unlikely that there will be functioning e-readers that are 100+ years old.

It is, however, quite a scary thought to imagine what our knowledge of the ancient world would be like if they had e-books. For example, half of the mathematical theorems we know are from mathematicians' margin-notes in math textbooks. Although I don't really care about future generations either, I would not want to be in their place, trying to recover our age's thoughts from a data chip.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Yes, you get a lot of significant, or downright interesting, things from the marginal notes.

[inked]

For all the rampant political correctness by certain 'Mooters, there is a blatant disregard for future generations on this thread that even I find DISTURBING!

Which means that BJ, among others, really ought to be here raising relativity issues. Where is he? Or IR, for that matter! Or Nurvingiel?

What is the Moot come to?