Elendil on Amon Sul

[Valandil]

In "A Knife in the Dark", as they approach Weathertop, Merry remarks on a path they've found, that it looks 'barrow-wightish' and asks Aragorn if there was a barrow on Weathertop.

Getting old, like me, Aragorn answers the question with a story. It ends like this:

"...But long ago, in the first days of the North Kingdom, they built a great watch-tower on Weathertop. Amon Sul they called it. It was burned and broken, and nothing remains of it now but a tumbled ring, like a rough crown on the old hill's head. Yet once it was tall and fair. It is told that Elendil stood there watching for the coming of Gil-galad out of the West, in the days of the Last Alliance."

From Appendix B, in the Second Age:

3431 Gil-galad and Elendil march east to Imladris.

Now, when I first read this passage, and even on subsequent re-readings, I always envisioned this guy (whom I learned more about later), as just standing at the parapet of this high tower, looking westward over the ramparts, watching for an army coming down the road.

But it only occurred to me the other day (how embarrassing) - that Elendil probably wasn't doing that.

He had a palantir on Amon Sul!

So - whether he stood, as Aragorn said, or actually sat, I suppose he watched for Gil-galad's army through his special "looking glass" rather than with the bare eye.

If it matters to anyone.

But it does show me how we can get an image in our minds when we read something, and still cling to that initial image even as we gather more information.

[Earniel]

heh, I never made that link either.

[sun-star]

Nor me. I think I actually prefer the image of him gazing westward - it's a striking picture.

[The Telcontarion]

The minuit i read this thread I knew u were right. It also accured to me that both enterpretations would most likely be right as well.

After all, Aragon and Gandalf used the "commanding view" of Amon Sul to get a better view of the land about.

[Rían]

I imagine he did both. Even though the palantiri were cool, there's nothing like seeing the actual thing with your actual eyes!

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I imagine he did both. Even though the palantiri were cool, there's nothing like seeing the actual thing with your actual eyes!

Especially when you have no choice, by Aragon and Gandalf's time the palantir was gone. It was a great location for a tower.

[Beren One-Hand]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that by looking through the palantiri you could only see other people looking through other palantiri.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Beren One-Hand

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that by looking through the palantiri you could only see other people looking through other palantiri.

That is just one of their uses

Originally Posted by The Palantiri, Unfinished Tales

Ungoverned by a directing mind they were wayward, and their "visions" were (apparently at least) haphazard. From a high place their westward face, for instance, would look to vast distance, its vision blurred and distorted to either side and above and below, and its foreground obscured by things behind receding in ever-diminishing clarity.

Also, Gandalf wanted to look even in the past, to see Feanor working.

[Beren One-Hand]

Thank you, Landroval.

[Valandil]

Bumpety-BUMP! (for Voronwen's sake )

[Voronwen]

Aww, thanks Valandil

I'd have to agree with those who have said that both were probably true.

Count me among the guilty who cannot get that image of him standing there gazing westward out of my head I just love it!

[brownjenkins]

When he "stood" maybe he was really watching.

He'd probably sit when he used the palantir.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

When he "stood" maybe he was really watching.

He'd probably sit when he used the palantir.

I suspect he watched physically fpr Gil-Galad's army to appear, though I cannot prove it. The Palantir could see better than human sight.

[Noble Elf Lord]

"...Elendil stood there watching for the coming..." Doesn't this sound like he was waiting for them, before they could be seen from the tower by bare eye? If not for the "for" (XD), I'd say he would have searched the lands to the west with the palantiri until he found the army. Also, it is somehow grander to see it with your own eyes, allies arriving from the West...

[Valandil]

I think you guys ('Naked Eye' proponents) just can't get your minds unstuck from the prejudicial initial impressions you formed.

Remember, when the reader first comes to this point, he knows NOTHING about a Palantir. And the Palantir was likely the whole reason to put a tower at this location.

Also - note Aragorn's language;

"It is told that Elendil stood there watching..."

Now - it was not Elendil himself who 'told' this to Aragorn. This is anecdotal information from over 3000 years before. Somebody made the assumption that he was standing, watching with the naked eye, and it began to be 'told' in a way that reflected that bias. Remember - the Dunedain were rather discreet in talking about the palantiri. If their existence and usage were not 'Top Secret', at least they were 'Classified'. In other words, if two guys at the bottom are having a discussion, it's not like:

Guy1: "So - what's this about Elendil spending all his time at the top of the tower?"
Guy2: "Why - he's looking in his Palantir, watching for whenever Gilgalad will get off his rear end and start actually bringing his Elvish forces in this general direction."

No - that wouldn't happen at all. These items were not material for general conversation. It would be more like:

Guy1: "So - what's this about Elendil spending all his time at the top of the tower?"
Guy2: "They say he's watching for the coming of Gilgalad from the west."
Guy1: "Oh - I see!" *thinks - 'ah - he must be standing there alone on the parapets, searching with his gaze for any sign of the approaching Elven army. Yes... he is certainly 'far-sighted', that one!'*

And this goes on to become part of the tradition about the time spent at Amon Sul. Elendil is not going to volunteer the information that he has been looking through the palantir, instead of with his bare eyes. Is he?

And I think the rest of you are just buying into this tradition.

But by any logic, Elendil would use the means at hand. He would be watching with the Palantir. Regardless of whatever 'romantic' images we may have formed in our minds from Aragorn's words - spoken over 3000 years later.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Valandil

And I think the rest of you are just buying into this tradition.

Perhaps totally by choice...!

But, you're very convincing on the "palantir" side of things. And i think you're probably right. At the very least, this had to be true at least some of the time.

[Gordis]

I think both is true.

Gil-Galad had promised help to Elendil: to bring the army of Elves from Mithlond to Amon Sul. As is usual with Elves, it must have taken quite a long time.

Anyway, Elendil was already done mustering Men from Arnor and was waiting for his Allies at Amon-Sul. Likely he started watching them in the Palantir long before they had actually set out from the Grey Havens.
Elendil was impatient: it was his younger son Anarion who was fighting the ferocious battle to keep the Enemy from Osgiliath and Minas Anor. And the blasted Elves still not there...

That's why, I think when he finally espied in the Palantir Gil-Galad actually on the march past Bree, he went to the top of the tower and stood there watching with naked eyes. There he was spotted by everybody and so he passed into the legends: alone, atop the tower gazing West.

The palantir was a secret, it was heavily guarded, hidden in the palantir chamber, covered when not used and nobody from below would see a person using it. It were the final stages of Elendil's wait that became the stuff of legends.

[Noble Elf Lord]

Originally Posted by Gordis

...As is usual with Elves, it must have taken quite a long time....

And as is usual with Gordis, she's right.

[Voronwen]

Gordis, i like your thinking (unless we're talking about Faithful vs. King's Men, but that's neither here nor there in this thread! ) Great post!

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Remember, when the reader first comes to this point, he knows NOTHING about a Palantir. And the Palantir was likely the whole reason to put a tower at this location.

Even when the WRITER first came to this point, he knew nothing about a Palantir - that appeared later

Originally Posted by Gordis

Anyway, Elendil was already done mustering Men from Arnor and was waiting for his Allies at Amon-Sul. Likely he started watching them in the Palantir long before they had actually set out from the Grey Havens.
Elendil was impatient: it was his younger son Anarion who was fighting the ferocious battle to keep the Enemy from Osgiliath and Minas Anor. And the blasted Elves still not there...

That's why, I think when he finally espied in the Palantir Gil-Galad actually on the march past Bree, he went to the top of the tower and stood there watching with naked eyes. There he was spotted by everybody and so he passed into the legends: alone, atop the tower gazing West.

I agree. He would watch in the Palantir as long as that was the only way to see them - and as soon as they were approaching the range of his eyesight, he would go out and see the real thing ...