Are there any homosexual characters in The Silmarillion?

[Peter_20]

Really, I've always thought at least ONE character in this huge tale should've been homosexual, seeing as there are hundreds of characters in the book.
I always liked to think Fingon and Maedhros were a couple, but since they're cousins I find it hard to believe.

It's interesting how some Elves never wedded and had children, but still lived thousands of years (sexual desire ), so characters like Aegnor and Celebrimbor could most likely have been homosexual, or possibly asexual.

[carlrodd]

i'm pretty sure tolkien made no consideration of homosexuality while crafting his work. i would assume, given their passionate nature, that elves who remained unhitched for so long were completely immersed in other things.....war, creating beautiful and terrible things, building great cities etc.

[brownjenkins]

Tolkien actually seems to avoid sexuality, of either kind, almost completely in his stories, other than when it is necessary. But, given his christian background and the time he grew up in, I'd have to think he would never have included any kind of homosexuality.

[Peter_20]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Tolkien actually seems to avoid sexuality, of either kind, almost completely in his stories, other than when it is necessary. But, given his christian background and the time he grew up in, I'd have to think he would never have included any kind of homosexuality.

That's a pity, because if he were to include homosexual details somewhere, this would make me respect him even more.

Oh well, I guess it ain't that bad though.

[jammi567]

Just because Tolkien didn't put it in, and didn't mean to put it in, it doesn't mean that we can't infer.

[Butterbeer]

sheesh

I'm much more worried by the glaring ommisions of Alien sex-trippers to both planet earth and Middle earth, in his works frankly!

[hectorberlioz]

At least there's McKellen's additions to the movies...

[brownjenkins]

Much to my disappointment, not all the good things in life involve sex.

[bropous]

Any blithering idiot who wants to inject homosexual themes into Tolkien's works is just practicing baseless projectionsim.

JRR Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and the concept of homosexuality was abhorrent to him. Anyone who tells you different is a revisionist.

Adding homosexual themes might make you respect Tolkien more? It's obvious you know nothing about the man nor his works. The man never even included heterosexual themes in his works other than this man was married to that woman or this man fell in love with that woman. He doesn't have the men graphically humping any woman, or for that matter, an Elf man buggering a dwarf man, or an Edain getting killed by having sex with a horse.

Don't make me projectile vomit. All of Tolkien's works were published long before political correctness and the worship of homoeroticism. Thank heavens.

Pretty blitheringly stupid statement for a person to make, even if they are in Sverge.

Have some respect for a wonderful work of literature without having to inject perversion into it, and I assure you, JRR Tolkien thought of homosexuality as perversion. Read a little about the man and his opinions and you will find that buggery was not at the top of issues the man thought proper or acceptable.

[bropous]

A little more clarification.

So you have limited respect for JRR Tolkien because he has not included homosexual characters?

I am assuming you also have limited respect for the majority of Western Literature for the lack of homosexual themes.

Little one, you are an obvious child of the PC movement. Gotta inflict the homosexual movement on every work of literature, or state that you cannot respect the authors for non-inclusion of same.

The big pro-homosexual push is only 20 or 30 years old, not a long history of the big push to inject homosexual acceptance in all aspects of life. Do you also have less respect for Carl Sagan for not injecting homosexual themes in astrophysics? Have less respect for mathemeticians for not including homosexual themes in advanced mathematics? Have less respect for Leif Ericksson for not turning his voyages to Vinland into homosexual Love Boat cruises?

JRR Tolkien did not include homosexual characters. The concept was never on the man's radar screen. He lived in a devout, scholarly world, where homosexuality was anathema. It may have occurred at Oxford, well, most definitely occurred, evinced by the homosexual Soviet spy ring from there, but it certainly was not admired.

We've had this argument here before, with some PC homoeroticophilic persons actually trying to say that when Sam kisses Frodo, that it was to express homosexual erotic attraction. It had nothing to do with gay make-out sessions on the slopes of Orodruin, it was about BROTHERLY love.

Tolkien spent years in the trenches in France in WWI. He saw dear, dear friends with whom he had spent years in school back in England die right in front of his eyes. He may have kissed dying men as an expression of respect, a fighting brother saying goodbye to a fighting brother who laid down his life so that Tolkien could live. To taint such actions is to show great disrespect for the simple purity of the NORMAL love of a man for his fellow man. He didn't french kiss his buddies then flip them over and bugger them.

If you cannot grasp that The Lord of the Rings and the rest of Tolkien's works are perfect as they are without homosexual themes (and, yes, hard to read for someone who can't read well, but by reading and striving to understand, you expand your reading skills) then I highly recommend you use a search engine, type in "modern fantasy novels homoerotic themes" and google to your little heart's content.

There is plenty of homerotic fantasy out there without having to slam JRR Tolkien for not including themes he would have found patently offensive, as I find your original query.

[brownjenkins]

If you gotta have "the other side", you can always read Bored of the Rings. It's kind of dated, but still a riot.

[Butterbeer]

... is it also a scandal perhaps that Humpty dumpty - known for sitting on the fence ... fell off?


Hot chilli kebabs of doom!

I also find it odd that there are glaring ommisions of ecological good practice in Winnie the Pooh!

But that's just me ...

[bropous]

You guys rock!

[Peter_20]

Wow, bropous, you really need to calm down a few thousand degrees.

[Tessar]

Loudly stated as Bropous' statement may have been, he's quite right Peter.

I personally have never found the inclusion of gay characters in stories or movies to add any extra 'value' if it could have just as well been done with heterosexual pairings. I don't believe that it detracts value, either, but I don't think that it adds anything.

Now if you want to go and write an essay or story that reflects on the issues of sexuality in modern day life, in a fantasy land, or where ever else you so choose, that's something entirely different. But adding gay characters to Tolkien would just be pointless in my opinion because it would add nothing to the story, and searching for gay characters where there are none is a tad silly.

[The Gaffer]

In the case of LOTR, I would agree that it would detract from the whole point of the story, which is about "the greater love hath no man..."

I'm slightly curious as to why some people feel the need to write slash fiction with Frodo and Sam as gay lovers. I think it's wrong to label it "PC"; I think it's about something else. Not sure what though. It seems to appeal to women more than men, for example.

[Peter_20]

Listen, I'm not trying to add some gay sex action in Tolkien's works, OK?
I'm just saying that it's kinda weird that hundreds and hundreds of characters are heterosexual, with no exceptions whatsoever.
It would be cool if some of the characters just WERE homosexuals, period.
And no, they don't have to "show it" or anything, just BE it.

Seriously, Tolkien has created LOTS of characters in his works, and he's trying to tell me that they are all full-blown heterosexuals?
No way, that's just absurd.

[The Gaffer]

Not really. How many homosexual characters are there in classic literature generally? How about European legends and folklore? How many are identified as sexual in any way?

[hectorberlioz]

To be honest, I'm extremely grateful to Tolkien than he didn't concentrate on sexual stuff at all. The kissing scene between Faramir and Eowyn is the only "close" lovey dovey scene in the whole work. Sexual orientation just...is not in a work like LotR.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

I'm slightly curious as to why some people feel the need to write slash fiction with Frodo and Sam as gay lovers. I think it's wrong to label it "PC"; I think it's about something else. Not sure what though. It seems to appeal to women more than men, for example.

Or Aragorn and Faramir.

Ian McKellen did this, to a smaller degree, in the films. Thats why I say...we should ditch the Gandalf if he plans on messing with The Hobbit too.