Hamas election.

[rohirrim TR]

I was wondering what you guys who are from Israel had to say about Hamas winning the [Palestinian] election, I'm not from Israel, but it kind of freaks me out really, a terrorist group who basically ran on the platform of "Lets kill Israeli's" is now running the Palestinian government? what are your first-hand reactions?

And what is going to come of the internal palestinian conflict Hamas V. Fatah?

click here reuters story

[Jonathan]

I may not be from Israel but Hamas's victory in the Palestinian election has upset the whole world more or less.

First I'd like to point out that even though the ultimate goal of Hamas is to wipe out the nation of Israel, the movement is conducting a lot of social activity. Hamas funds schools, clinics and mosques and donates money to the less fortunate. This is greatly appreciated among Palestinians and has made Hamas quite popular. I believe many, if not most, Palestinians who voted for Hamas did it for Hamas's social activity rather than their opposition of Israel's existence.

Having that said, Hamas has got to fundamentally change if they're ever going to have a chance in politics. This is a brutal terrorist organisation and very few nations will be able to even have discussions with them. As long as Hamas is on the terror lists of both the US and EU, it will be almost impossible for them to conduct a functioning foreign policy and in order to even talk to Israel, they have to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. Furthermore, they have to learn to cooperate with Fatah in order to manage domestically.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Having that said, Hamas has got to fundamentally change if they're ever going to have a chance in politics. This is a brutal terrorist organisation and very few nations will be able to even have discussions with them. As long as Hamas is on the terror lists of both the US and EU, it will be almost impossible for them to conduct a functioning foreign policy and in order to even talk to Israel, they have to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. Furthermore, they have to learn to cooperate with Fatah in order to manage domestically.

And Fatah and Hamas certainly haven't been getting along of late, by all appearances.

Another reason for the Hamas victory was the corruption in the PA.

[The Gaffer]

All good points. This reminds me of recent elections in Northern Ireland where, in spite of everyone professing their desire for peace, the two most extreme parties got voted in (the Democratic Unionists by the Loyalists and Sinn Fein by the Republicans).

For me, there's a lesson in that parallel in how Sinn Fein, and the IRA, have renounced the armed struggle AFTER becoming engaged in a political process. Note the word AFTER. It is unrealistic to expect an organisation such as that to abandon an armed struggle PRIOR to entering into politics.

So, I am hopeful that with the right sort of handling, Hamas can be persuaded to move away from military conflict. However, I am not particularly hopeful that the right sort of handling will be forthcoming.

[Nurvingiel]

Great thread RohirrimTR. I don't know very much about this situation, but it looks like bad news that Hamas won. Maybe not though.

I agree Gaffer. Why would a group who is willing to engage in violence put down their arms? They would have to gain something like a say in the political process, which violence would jeapordize.

[Bombadillo]

This sucks. I know I'm somewhat ignorant, but judging from the long history of berserker anti-Israel Palestinian cults like Hamas, they won't rule peacefully. I don't know what the voters were thinking.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

This sucks. I know I'm somewhat ignorant, but judging from the long history of berserker anti-Israel Palestinian cults like Hamas, they won't rule peacefully. I don't know what the voters were thinking.

The voters were thinking they were tired of the corruption. They were tired of having to know someone to even get a job. They figured Hamas would not be as corrupt as Fatah has proven to be. But of course Hamas brings a ton more bagage into this situation that could really throw a monkey wrench into the collective machinery that is the current mid east situation. Currently Israel refused to engage in any talks with a government where Hamas is the dominant power.How can this be resolved is the immediate question that needs to be addressed. How can a palastinian state thrive without any trade or interaction with Israel? Will Hamas be smart enough to realize that they will need to let palastinian merchants and businessmen engage in business with Isrealy merchants and businessmen? They very much depend on each other for making a living. I ont see how isolating themselves away from Israel could possibly help Hamas to improve the pour economy. Right now it seems like a bad situation. Well see if engaging in daily politics actually tames Hamas somewhat like it did with Sin Fein.

[The Gaffer]

It's worth noting that Hamas has observed a self-imposed ceasefire in recent months, so there are glimmers of hope in the situation.

I think the other thing to emphasise is the point Jonathan made: that Hamas engages in a lot of community work which has directly benefited the people of Palestine. Hence they are popular.

On a more historical perspective, many of the leading figures in Israeli politics (e.g. Sharon) were "terrorists" in the past. (OK, maybe Sharon wasn't the best example.) Anyhow, politics CAN tame these sorts of activities.

[rohirrim TR]

Whoa, there gaffer, you're on thin ice, most Israeli leaders have served in the military, but no one would have called them terrorists, they were serving their country and they've [Israel] had a few wars.

[The Gaffer]

Not at all. To take one high-profile example, a former Prime Minister, Yizhak Shamir, led an organisation which carried out "terrorist" acts against the British in Palestine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir

Of course, one may prefer to use the term "freedom fighter" instead.

[rohirrim TR]

thanks for the link, I had never heard of that dude before.

[The Gaffer]

Another high profile dude was Menachem Begin, Prime Minister for much of the 70s, who led a similar "terrorist/freedom fighter" organisation (delete as appropriate) in the last years of the British Mandate.

That generation is dying off; on the other side, Arafat has gone; generally, less and less people remember those days. Of course, there remains a powerful legacy of violence, but perhaps there is hope for a new generation.

[Lief Erikson]

Hamas has ordered Palestinian militant groups that are fighting one another to get off the streets. I've been under the impression that Hamas has a lot more force to rely on, as well as a lot more respect from the Palestinian people, than the former Fatah government did. I wonder if they will have better luck in establishing order than the previous government. It will be very interesting to see.

[Spock]

They are terrorists. They've sworn to eliminate Israel and drive the Jews into the sea. I fail to see any changes coming.

[Lief Erikson]

I'm not saying changes about that. I'm wondering, though, if they can manage to get control of all the disorder and gang violence in Gaza Strip. It'll be interesting to see.

[rohirrim TR]

well we know they have the muscle, its just a question of whether they got the guts for it or not. But would it really help their cause any.?

[Lief Erikson]

I think so. They want order in Gaza. They've commanded the militants to get off the streets and the militants aren't . . . I wonder if Hamas is going to yield or try to force it.