Lottery to pay for Space Projects-would you play it?

cee2lee2 · 01-21-2006, 08:56 AM

Space Lottery: An Idea Whose Time Has Come

Elmer L. (Bart) Forbath
National Space Society Fri Jan 20, 2:00 PM ET

I suggest a National Space Lottery as a new way of funding space flight systems, promoting space tourism and paying for the tickets of those who would fly. Many have spoken of our goals in space, but few offer ways to pay for them. The following proposal offers a possible solution.

The National Space Society should promote creation of a National Space Lottery. Ideally, this might become an International Space Lottery, and would offer the possibility of space flight, as a prize, to every man, woman and child on earth.

Robotic planetary exploration is important, as it prepares the way for men and women. However, only humans in space will excite the imagination of the world and only this can protect us from eventual extinction. Our species is at risk as long as we keep all our eggs in one basket, all our progeny on one fragile planet. Konstantin Tsiolkovsky said, "Earth is the cradle of mankind--but one cannot live in the cradle forever!"

The public will support a robust space program, as they did for the Apollo moon missions. Our race with the Soviets was not the prime cause for their support; it was vicarious experience, the reason "Star Trek" is so popular. It was the exciting idea of human beings doing important dangerous work, and traveling "where no one has gone before."

Inexpensive access to space must be our highest priority. Its lack has kept us in low Earth orbit for 35 years! Finding a cheap way to escape Earth's gravity well is essential.

Expendable rockets are a trap, a dead-end. Inherently wasteful, they are only as reliable as the first flight of each plane. (You would not take passengers on your first flight.) Using throwaway rockets is like building an airliner in Seattle, flying to New York, and then throwing the plane in the ocean! We build a new ship for each flight, only to destroy it. Such a system can never be a permanent solution.

We must build a robust, fully reusable orbital space plane. The likely solution will be two fully reusable stages, or nuclear propulsion. Only government can build the latter. Private industry is more efficient, however, and could make a two-stage system in just a few years.

The Space Shuttle was designed with a reusable first stage, abandoned in a shortsighted attempt to save money. Many ships have been planned, only to be cancelled. Congress can see only as far as the next election! The government should set goals, but not specify how they are to be reached.

The problem with funding space efforts with tax dollars is that many say, "What's in it for me?" To date, space has been reserved for scientists and rich tourists, like Dennis Tito and few imagine themselves as having a chance. A National Space Lottery will offer the possibility of space travel to everyone, rich or poor!

Lotteries generate huge amounts: One multi-state jackpot reached $363 million! The lottery for New York has the motto "A Dollar and a Dream." The dream offered by a ticket in the "space" lottery could be a ride on an F-16 or the "Zero G" airplane, suborbital flight on SpaceShipOne, a trip to the
International Space Station, or eventually to our lunar colony.

Our lottery can encourage creation of reusable ships by offering a series of prizes: Many ideas can be tried; competition will prove which is best. Lindberg won the $25,000 Orteig prize for his 1927 flight from New York to Paris. Those competing raised more than 20 times that amount, and within ten years, we had an airline industry. Burt Rutan won the $10 million "X-Prize" with his 3-passenger suborbital White Knight and SpaceShipOne. Richard Branson's new Virgin Galactic has placed the first 5 orders for an 8-passenger "SpaceShipTwo."

The X-Prize Cup now offers an annual series of prizes to private companies for the highest flight, fastest ship, most passengers, etc.
NASA's "Centennial Challenges" program is offering prizes now in partnership with the X-Prize Foundation. Congress should expand this idea.

The question remains, "How can we fund these efforts?" I think the best answer is a lottery. This is the other side of the same coin offered by the X-Prize.

Americans everywhere would pay a dollar a week for a ticket, not only in hope of winning a prize, but because millions want a future in space. They would do it for national pride: to retain our leadership in technology.

Private investors want a likely stream of revenue for their investment. This was provided in the 1930's by a government guarantee of mail service, using the new airlines. A lottery could produce the same result: Prizewinners would represent a series of pre-paid tickets for each new ship. If funded by lottery, each prize would keep growing until it was won!

New York and most states have a monopoly on their lottery money. A National Space Lottery thus might require an act of Congress, or it could be made a part of NASA. Preferably, however, such a lottery should be run by a nonprofit organization like the National Space Society, Planetary Society or the X-Prize Foundation. A "National Space Lottery Foundation" might be formed. The first step may be to create an organization to lobby congress, and raise money for public awareness.

The National Space Society should sponsor this innovative plan to fund our efforts in space. Both its mission and its organization would benefit:

A Space Lottery would generate enormous worldwide publicity, a new fascination with space. Prizewinners would be followed like those of modern "Reality TV" shows. An International Space Lottery would be ideal. People all over the world, rich and poor, would share in the possibility of a ride into space. Space tourism could soon become a reality. Men, women and children everywhere sense that the destiny of humanity is elsewhere, and want to be part of the dream.

NOTE: The views of this article are the author's and do not reflect the policies of the National Space Society.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200601...osetimehascome

cee2lee2 · 01-21-2006, 09:01 AM

Forgot to answer my own question.

I'm not much of a lottery player though PA has one that's used to fund elderly services. However, this one I think I would play. I've often said I'd like the experience of space travel (though if I ever really got the chance, don't know if I'd have the courage to follow through), but it was a moot point. I'm not an astronaut and I'm never going to be one. Neither am I ever likely to have the money to be a "space tourist." (Unless I win the PA lottery!) This gives everybody a chance. And I think I'd even be happy to win one of the lesser prizes.

Spock · 01-21-2006, 01:27 PM

cee2lee2

1. I've modified the title to make things more clear to those browsing the forums.

2. I'd have PM'd you but your profile doesn't have that option.

cee2lee2 · 01-21-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

cee2lee2

1. I've modified the title to make things more clear to those browsing the forums.

2. I'd have PM'd you but your profile doesn't have that option.

Much better title -- thank you for making the change.

katya · 01-21-2006, 11:29 PM

I`d play. I would love to go to space and I wouldn`t mind risking my life for that sort of opportunity. I`d be telling myself I`d never win but if I didn`t at least buy a ticket I`d be regretting it.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-22-2006, 07:41 PM

I'd buy a ticket.

I think space exploration is important too. The way you worded it though - would you be obliged to buy one ticket per week? Isn't that a tax to pay for the program then?

Maybe we should have a tax too, but I think a lottery should be voluntary.

cee2lee2 · 01-23-2006, 12:09 AM

From my reading of Mr. Forbath's article, it seems it would be an ongoing lottery much as our state lotteries are now: If you want a chance at the current prize, you would have to buy a ticket.

I agree; a lottery should be completely voluntary.

***Earniel*** · 01-23-2006, 06:25 AM

I would give it a shot, although I doubt this sort of lottery will bring in as much money as other lotteries. Everyone can be a millionnaire, from 6 months old babies to 89-year old folk. Not everyone can or wants to go into space. I think only a certain part of the population would be allowed to travel into space, so only a part of the population could play this particular lottery.

Grey_Wolf · 01-23-2006, 07:20 AM

"We choose to go to the moon and to do the other thing."

What other thing? Not go to the Moon?

The Gaffer · 01-23-2006, 11:06 AM

I think that we should collectively decide if we want to go into space and, if so, fund it from general taxation. IMO that's the fairest and most efficient way of doing it.

If we think that ordinary punters deserve the chance, then why not select 'em at random from the electoral register or something?

Making it a lottery has the advantage of being an "opt-in" system, i.e. if you don't care you don't pay. However, the disadvantages would be accountability, lack of funds (we're talking billions needed) and competing with other charities for a limited amount of giving.

Spock · 01-23-2006, 11:51 AM

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the title or concept of this thread that says you must play. It merely asks if you would play. Of course progress depends upon money and money depends on how many and how often but that wasn't the intent of the question.

***Earniel*** · 01-23-2006, 01:49 PM

I think we can be allowed to discuss some points or aspects of the lottery plan itself too, instead of merely answering 'yes, I'd play', or 'no, I wouldn't participate'. Otherwise it would be a very dull thread.

Spock · 01-23-2006, 01:56 PM

Right.....and we don't want that do we?

cee2lee2 · 01-23-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

Right.....and we don't want that do we?

No we don't!

I'm curious to know if others here besides me would play, but I'm also interested in others' ideas about using the lottery to fund space exploration ( and possibly offer the 'little guy' a chance to experience it.)

The Gaffer mentioned competition among charities for limited funds as a disadvantage. I don't think it would be any more of a disadvantage than it is now. I'm always juggling competing requests for my limited charity dollars.

Spock · 01-23-2006, 10:16 PM

Sure thing. The monies in any lottery aren't all spent, so give out some prizes and let the rest go into research and development. In a few years they'd have a nest egg to start with. Remember most lottery systems pay out in the one figure millions while space research requires billions. It would be a start.

Bombadillo · 01-24-2006, 12:53 AM

I would totally buy a ticket. Some of what's said in that article thouroughly creeps me out though. Sucking the life out of planet after planet after planet till the end of time should never become someone's goal. If you think that when you die, you have to bring worlds down with you, you're very twisted. That idea should never be considered. It's unnerving.

But seeing the Earth and the stars from space would be an innocent indulgence. And it's about damn time for permanent spacecraft, and consistent work for that matter, instead of a year's hesitation after each shuttle crash. The lottery had better stay big if I win and blow up.

IDK why I'm so worked up against NASA suddenly.

katya · 01-24-2006, 05:13 AM

Yeah, I don`t even really like the idea of people being on the moon. I don`t know- it`s depressing to think about mankind trying to hard to keep itself alive. I`m one of those people who would prefer a natural death when the time comes.

It`s true that just about everyone would like to win the regular lottery and a lot of people wouldn`t wanna go into space, but there are a lot of people who I think would go out of their way a little more- like me. I don`t buy regular tickets but I wouldn`t let myself pass up a space lottery. I still don`t think it would be all the money necessary, but it`s better than nothing.

The Gaffer · 01-24-2006, 05:55 AM

It may not be that much of a disadvantage, in that people who bought a ticket with a space flight as a prize may not be the same ones who pay their Stupid Tax week in, week out in the hope of winning a million.

However, there is a general point about having a limited amount of "extra" money. Also, there is a serious question as to whether such a lottery could raise enough money to sustain a space programme.

Bombadillo · 01-24-2006, 09:14 PM

I wouldn't ever hope that it could sustain a space program, but it could help get/keep it funtioning.

BTW, I don't gamble either. Well I place bets, but don't play any silly games for money and I wouldn't play the normal lottery. But if the prize is a space-ship ride, I think my odds are a lot better, since the number of people actually eligable for such a prize (physically able to endure it according to whatever regulations) is much smaller. Plus I could comfort myself by thinking how the cost of my ticket is aiding the program. Whether that be realistic or not I don't really care.

Plus it's a space ship ride!

01-21-2006, 08:56 AM	#1
cee2lee2 Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: 2nd star to the left..... Posts: 566	Lottery to pay for Space Projects-would you play it? Space Lottery: An Idea Whose Time Has Come Elmer L. (Bart) Forbath National Space Society Fri Jan 20, 2:00 PM ET I suggest a National Space Lottery as a new way of funding space flight systems, promoting space tourism and paying for the tickets of those who would fly. Many have spoken of our goals in space, but few offer ways to pay for them. The following proposal offers a possible solution. The National Space Society should promote creation of a National Space Lottery. Ideally, this might become an International Space Lottery, and would offer the possibility of space flight, as a prize, to every man, woman and child on earth. Robotic planetary exploration is important, as it prepares the way for men and women. However, only humans in space will excite the imagination of the world and only this can protect us from eventual extinction. Our species is at risk as long as we keep all our eggs in one basket, all our progeny on one fragile planet. Konstantin Tsiolkovsky said, "Earth is the cradle of mankind--but one cannot live in the cradle forever!" The public will support a robust space program, as they did for the Apollo moon missions. Our race with the Soviets was not the prime cause for their support; it was vicarious experience, the reason "Star Trek" is so popular. It was the exciting idea of human beings doing important dangerous work, and traveling "where no one has gone before." Inexpensive access to space must be our highest priority. Its lack has kept us in low Earth orbit for 35 years! Finding a cheap way to escape Earth's gravity well is essential. Expendable rockets are a trap, a dead-end. Inherently wasteful, they are only as reliable as the first flight of each plane. (You would not take passengers on your first flight.) Using throwaway rockets is like building an airliner in Seattle, flying to New York, and then throwing the plane in the ocean! We build a new ship for each flight, only to destroy it. Such a system can never be a permanent solution. We must build a robust, fully reusable orbital space plane. The likely solution will be two fully reusable stages, or nuclear propulsion. Only government can build the latter. Private industry is more efficient, however, and could make a two-stage system in just a few years. The Space Shuttle was designed with a reusable first stage, abandoned in a shortsighted attempt to save money. Many ships have been planned, only to be cancelled. Congress can see only as far as the next election! The government should set goals, but not specify how they are to be reached. The problem with funding space efforts with tax dollars is that many say, "What's in it for me?" To date, space has been reserved for scientists and rich tourists, like Dennis Tito and few imagine themselves as having a chance. A National Space Lottery will offer the possibility of space travel to everyone, rich or poor! Lotteries generate huge amounts: One multi-state jackpot reached $363 million! The lottery for New York has the motto "A Dollar and a Dream." The dream offered by a ticket in the "space" lottery could be a ride on an F-16 or the "Zero G" airplane, suborbital flight on SpaceShipOne, a trip to the International Space Station, or eventually to our lunar colony. Our lottery can encourage creation of reusable ships by offering a series of prizes: Many ideas can be tried; competition will prove which is best. Lindberg won the $25,000 Orteig prize for his 1927 flight from New York to Paris. Those competing raised more than 20 times that amount, and within ten years, we had an airline industry. Burt Rutan won the $10 million "X-Prize" with his 3-passenger suborbital White Knight and SpaceShipOne. Richard Branson's new Virgin Galactic has placed the first 5 orders for an 8-passenger "SpaceShipTwo." The X-Prize Cup now offers an annual series of prizes to private companies for the highest flight, fastest ship, most passengers, etc. NASA's "Centennial Challenges" program is offering prizes now in partnership with the X-Prize Foundation. Congress should expand this idea. The question remains, "How can we fund these efforts?" I think the best answer is a lottery. This is the other side of the same coin offered by the X-Prize. Americans everywhere would pay a dollar a week for a ticket, not only in hope of winning a prize, but because millions want a future in space. They would do it for national pride: to retain our leadership in technology. Private investors want a likely stream of revenue for their investment. This was provided in the 1930's by a government guarantee of mail service, using the new airlines. A lottery could produce the same result: Prizewinners would represent a series of pre-paid tickets for each new ship. If funded by lottery, each prize would keep growing until it was won! New York and most states have a monopoly on their lottery money. A National Space Lottery thus might require an act of Congress, or it could be made a part of NASA. Preferably, however, such a lottery should be run by a nonprofit organization like the National Space Society, Planetary Society or the X-Prize Foundation. A "National Space Lottery Foundation" might be formed. The first step may be to create an organization to lobby congress, and raise money for public awareness. The National Space Society should sponsor this innovative plan to fund our efforts in space. Both its mission and its organization would benefit: A Space Lottery would generate enormous worldwide publicity, a new fascination with space. Prizewinners would be followed like those of modern "Reality TV" shows. An International Space Lottery would be ideal. People all over the world, rich and poor, would share in the possibility of a ride into space. Space tourism could soon become a reality. Men, women and children everywhere sense that the destiny of humanity is elsewhere, and want to be part of the dream. NOTE: The views of this article are the author's and do not reflect the policies of the National Space Society. http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200601...osetimehascome

01-21-2006, 01:27 PM	#3
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	cee2lee2 1. I've modified the title to make things more clear to those browsing the forums. 2. I'd have PM'd you but your profile doesn't have that option. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

01-23-2006, 06:25 AM	#8
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I would give it a shot, although I doubt this sort of lottery will bring in as much money as other lotteries. Everyone can be a millionnaire, from 6 months old babies to 89-year old folk. Not everyone can or wants to go into space. I think only a certain part of the population would be allowed to travel into space, so only a part of the population could play this particular lottery. __________________ We are not things.

01-23-2006, 07:20 AM	#9
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	"We choose to go to the moon and to do the other thing." What other thing? Not go to the Moon? Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 01-23-2006 at 02:33 PM.

01-23-2006, 11:51 AM	#11
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the title or concept of this thread that says you must play. It merely asks if you would play. Of course progress depends upon money and money depends on how many and how often but that wasn't the intent of the question. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

01-21-2006, 09:01 AM	#2
cee2lee2 Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: 2nd star to the left..... Posts: 566	Forgot to answer my own question. I'm not much of a lottery player though PA has one that's used to fund elderly services. However, this one I think I would play. I've often said I'd like the experience of space travel (though if I ever really got the chance, don't know if I'd have the courage to follow through), but it was a moot point. I'm not an astronaut and I'm never going to be one. Neither am I ever likely to have the money to be a "space tourist." (Unless I win the PA lottery!) This gives everybody a chance. And I think I'd even be happy to win one of the lesser prizes.

01-21-2006, 11:29 PM	#5
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I`d play. I would love to go to space and I wouldn`t mind risking my life for that sort of opportunity. I`d be telling myself I`d never win but if I didn`t at least buy a ticket I`d be regretting it.

01-23-2006, 12:09 AM	#7
cee2lee2 Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: 2nd star to the left..... Posts: 566	From my reading of Mr. Forbath's article, it seems it would be an ongoing lottery much as our state lotteries are now: If you want a chance at the current prize, you would have to buy a ticket. I agree; a lottery should be completely voluntary.

01-23-2006, 11:06 AM	#10
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	I think that we should collectively decide if we want to go into space and, if so, fund it from general taxation. IMO that's the fairest and most efficient way of doing it. If we think that ordinary punters deserve the chance, then why not select 'em at random from the electoral register or something? Making it a lottery has the advantage of being an "opt-in" system, i.e. if you don't care you don't pay. However, the disadvantages would be accountability, lack of funds (we're talking billions needed) and competing with other charities for a limited amount of giving.

01-23-2006, 01:49 PM	#12
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I think we can be allowed to discuss some points or aspects of the lottery plan itself too, instead of merely answering 'yes, I'd play', or 'no, I wouldn't participate'. Otherwise it would be a very dull thread. __________________ We are not things.

01-23-2006, 01:56 PM	#13
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Right.....and we don't want that do we? __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

01-23-2006, 10:16 PM	#15
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Sure thing. The monies in any lottery aren't all spent, so give out some prizes and let the rest go into research and development. In a few years they'd have a nest egg to start with. Remember most lottery systems pay out in the one figure millions while space research requires billions. It would be a start. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

01-24-2006, 12:53 AM	#16
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	I would totally buy a ticket. Some of what's said in that article thouroughly creeps me out though. Sucking the life out of planet after planet after planet till the end of time should never become someone's goal. If you think that when you die, you have to bring worlds down with you, you're very twisted. That idea should never be considered. It's unnerving. But seeing the Earth and the stars from space would be an innocent indulgence. And it's about damn time for permanent spacecraft, and consistent work for that matter, instead of a year's hesitation after each shuttle crash. The lottery had better stay big if I win and blow up. IDK why I'm so worked up against NASA suddenly. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

01-24-2006, 05:13 AM	#17
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Yeah, I don`t even really like the idea of people being on the moon. I don`t know- it`s depressing to think about mankind trying to hard to keep itself alive. I`m one of those people who would prefer a natural death when the time comes. It`s true that just about everyone would like to win the regular lottery and a lot of people wouldn`t wanna go into space, but there are a lot of people who I think would go out of their way a little more- like me. I don`t buy regular tickets but I wouldn`t let myself pass up a space lottery. I still don`t think it would be all the money necessary, but it`s better than nothing.

01-24-2006, 05:55 AM	#18
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	It may not be that much of a disadvantage, in that people who bought a ticket with a space flight as a prize may not be the same ones who pay their Stupid Tax week in, week out in the hope of winning a million. However, there is a general point about having a limited amount of "extra" money. Also, there is a serious question as to whether such a lottery could raise enough money to sustain a space programme.

01-24-2006, 09:14 PM	#19
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	I wouldn't ever hope that it could sustain a space program, but it could help get/keep it funtioning. BTW, I don't gamble either. Well I place bets, but don't play any silly games for money and I wouldn't play the normal lottery. But if the prize is a space-ship ride, I think my odds are a lot better, since the number of people actually eligable for such a prize (physically able to endure it according to whatever regulations) is much smaller. Plus I could comfort myself by thinking how the cost of my ticket is aiding the program. Whether that be realistic or not I don't really care. Plus it's a space ship ride! __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?