Meditation

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-23-2005, 07:27 PM

This thread, a kind of split from "The Happy Thread", is for discussion and learning regarding meditation. Bear in mind this thread will have no religious connotations whatsoever, I believe meditation can help anyone, regardless of religion, or anything else.

Lesson the First: The Basics.

The most important thing to consider when starting meditation is breathing.
When you can regulate your breathing to a steady pace, that is not fast, you are ready to begin. Sit on the floor, cross your legs and lay your palms on your knees. The room must be silent for the first time that you meditate, and you must train your mind to ignore outside influences. Let your mind wander over your dealings throughout the past day, do not focus on details, but focus on the emotions that you felt at the time, when you believe that you have calmed your mind succinctly, then you will have mastered the primary force, that of clear thought.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-23-2005, 08:09 PM

Lesson the Second: Outside Stimuli.

By now you should have successfully mastered the basics of breathing, and keeping a clear head. Now we shall move on to aids to meditation. First, make yourself a cup of hot tea. The tea should be Chinese, and black, you may add a little sugar or honey if you wish, although I do not recommend it. It is important that you do not use Indian, African or blended teas, these present entirely the wrong flavour and scent. The best teas to use are Lapsang Souchong and Rose Pouchong.
Next light an incense stick, preferably Patchouli or Jasmine at this stage, or if you do not have incense sticks, an oil burner will give the same effect.
When using music as a meditationary aid, the best music to listen to is traditional Asian music, Japanese or Tibetan preferably. The Mantra to Avalokiteshvra is most effective.
When all is ready, repeat lesson 1, with these outside stimuli, take in the music, but do not focus on sounds themselves, but on the thoughts and emotions that these sounds produce in your mind.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-23-2005, 08:30 PM

Lesson the Third: Self Healing

This lesson should only be attempted when one reaches a point in meditation when they feel they can control their mind sufficiently.
Obviously you need mental pain to attempt, or there is no point at all!
Begin your meditation as you would at any other time, sit in silence, eyes closed, palms on your knees. Visualise the pain, such as a headache, as a ball, imagine the size of the ball relative to your pain, and let it float freely about your aura. when you have regulated your breathing, and your mind has cleared, visualise a hand slowly pushing the ball, watch the ball as it gets smaller and smaller, until it recedes to a point that is so small that it can not be seen. When you have done this, push that tiny ball away from you, as far as you possibly can, and then regulaTE YOUR BREATHING PATTERNS ONCE AGAIN, AND GO BACK TO BASIC MEDITATION.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-23-2005, 08:33 PM

And now, on to the discussion...

What do you think of meditation?
Do you meditate?
Have you tried/will you try my basic methods?
Any other points on the nature of meditation?

I personally believe that meditation allows us to calm our minds, and it also enables us to become more in tune with our body, I have meditated in the past, for instance, to remove headaches, and that has worked for me. It inspires peace in the mind and peace in the body.

... now, discuss away!

***RÃan*** · 05-23-2005, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

PLACEHOLDER for Lesson the Third

(did you get that idea from me?

)

IYO, is there any benefit to meditation other than calming minds and being more in tune with our bodies, and inspiring peace in mind and body? IOW, if I find that an activity such as riding horses does all those things, should I still meditate as you describe, IYO (if that makes sense)?

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-23-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

(did you get that idea from me?

)

i may have done

Quote:

IYO, is there any benefit to meditation other than calming minds and being more in tune with our bodies, and inspiring peace in mind and body? IOW, if I find that an activity such as riding horses does all those things, should I still meditate as you describe, IYO (if that makes sense)?

there is no higher way of finding true peace, IMO, but a benefit, which will form the basis of the third lesson, is self-healing, meditation can also be supplemental, if it is found that it helps one to be at peace with oneself, then it is a worthy idea to partake, meditation does not help everybody, but to those that it does, it is a great help, and i believe meditation can help more people than not

just think, allowing yourself to put aside daily worries, if only for 15 minutes, and let calmness and silence course through your mind, that has to be helpful in a calming nature at least?

thank you for taking the time to answer my little thread

Spock · 05-24-2005, 12:30 AM

sit on an ottoman or a chair that is comfortable and gives support to your back if you need it.
New Age music can be substituted for those who don't have or don't appreciate Asian music. Music, itself, isn't necessary it is an aid to attaining serenity of mind.
Incense is optional, especially if it triggers alergies or asthma.
Your mind will wander, try to bring it back to your breath. Concentrate on your breath, going in and down into your lungs and coming out. Breath in through your nose and out through your mouth. Try expanding your stomach on breath in and contract it all the way on breath out.

no place for further tips just a note I'll try to supply them as I see openings for assisting.

***Tessar*** · 05-24-2005, 12:58 AM

Step Four: The Force

Once you have mastered meditation, and found your inner strength, you must learn to control the Force. It surrounds us, and binds the galaxy together...

For me, trying to meditate doesn't work. But I've found that if I sit down, or lay down, and start to pray the Rosary I almost INSTANTLY enter that 'meditative' state--as well, I feel much emotionaly stronger for as much as two days after having prayed the Rosary, and that state of calmness sticks with me.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-24-2005, 09:33 AM

Lesson the Third has now been placed.

interesting thoughts, tessar, it would seem, to me that is, that your prayer offers the same benefits to you as i find in mahayana meditation

Spock · 05-24-2005, 01:36 PM

I agree, also "drumming" in the culture of Indians does similar things. I've experienced it and it was quite intense.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-24-2005, 04:33 PM

when i travelled in asia, i visited a remote mongolian village, and luckily the shaman was visiting that village at the time, and they permitted me to participate, and that also allowed me to enter into a meditative state

katya · 05-24-2005, 05:03 PM

I think that the rosary is kind of nice, because it gives really devout Christians who would find meditation too weird with an excuse to meditate. When I was a Christian, I used to pray the rosary every once in a while combined with traditional meditation.

I think you gave some good tips, Chrys, and Spock. I may try it out. I just got back from sitting on the beach in the sun drawing and looking at the clouds for an hour so I'm sort of in the mood for a good meditation. I love doing it outside, when it's warm. That way, when you open your eyes (I keep mine half closed half open) the world around looks so much more beautiful, because you look around and notice it more, I've found.

I think the hardest part of meditating for me is I always think of some food that sounds good or a story I want to write.

Spock · 05-24-2005, 05:49 PM

LCOU, that's great, now you should be able to "go back" to that place whenever you meditate.
My experiences in Japan allow me to go back to mountain monastic teachings and to a monastery I studied at. I only use these two "locations" when I'm really out of sorts and need re-grounding but they work every time.

***Tessar*** · 05-24-2005, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katya

I think that the rosary is kind of nice, because it gives really devout Christians who would find meditation too weird with an excuse to meditate.

I do agree that some christians are like that. IMO meditation is fine and dandy, if anyone wants to try it. I don't think anyone could have anything against clearing the mind and centering yourself.

Sadly, I think a lot of people consider it some kind of vodoo-whooja whatever thing.

katya · 05-24-2005, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessar

I do agree that some christians are like that. IMO meditation is fine and dandy, if anyone wants to try it. I don't think anyone could have anything against clearing the mind and centering yourself.

Sadly, I think a lot of people consider it some kind of vodoo-whooja whatever thing.

Yeah, exactly. I was certainly never like that, but some people are. It's weird. Sometimes I *have* to take a short meditative break. Like when I took the MEAP tests, I'd stop and clear my mind for a minute or so. 'Course I didn't get into lotus position to do that, ha-ha.

Chrys, I tried the idea of trying to focus on the emotions of things rather than on things themselves and I like it a lot.^^

Spock · 05-30-2005, 10:07 AM

http://health.discovery.com/centers/...epbreathe.html

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-30-2005, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spock

http://health.discovery.com/centers/...epbreathe.html

mm, good piece spock, very logical

that is exactly the way i learnt to breathe, if you catch my meaning, not that i didn't breathe before

Spock · 05-30-2005, 10:25 AM

thanks, Chrys, enjoy the day and be in the moment.

Lief Erikson · 05-30-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

IYO, is there any benefit to meditation other than calming minds and being more in tune with our bodies, and inspiring peace in mind and body? IOW, if I find that an activity such as riding horses does all those things, should I still meditate as you describe, IYO (if that makes sense)?

Many of the early Christians, I have heard, practiced meditation. It is a useful means of contacting God. I'm not sure that everyone is talking about the same kind of meditation, though. Richard Foster I believe was the person who said that Buddhist or Hindu meditation empties the mind, but Christian meditation "empties the mind to fill it with God."

Any comments on this?

I have not done much with meditation myself, but have found fasting enormously effective as a benefit to my spiritual life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessar

IMO meditation is fine and dandy, if anyone wants to try it. I don't think anyone could have anything against clearing the mind and centering yourself.

One fact that is useful to keep in mind is that meditation can be used for far more then just centering oneself. Meditation is used by Christians to converse back and forth with God- I see it as sometimes (though not always) being a door between the spiritual world and the physical.

More things can come through that door then God. One person I talked to who was involved in meditation says that it "changes your mind, and the way you think." Perhaps this is good, and perhaps not. But anyway, for those that believe in demons, the risks involved logically can appear real.

Last Child of Ungoliant · 05-30-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lief

Buddhist or Hindu meditation empties the mind

i am not sure that it empties the mind, to leave it blank, per se, more so that it allows your 'soul' (for lack of a better word) to fill up your body and mind, and so communication with god(s) is possible (more so in hindu than buddhist)

05-23-2005, 07:27 PM	#1
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	Meditation This thread, a kind of split from "The Happy Thread", is for discussion and learning regarding meditation. Bear in mind this thread will have no religious connotations whatsoever, I believe meditation can help anyone, regardless of religion, or anything else. Lesson the First: The Basics. The most important thing to consider when starting meditation is breathing. When you can regulate your breathing to a steady pace, that is not fast, you are ready to begin. Sit on the floor, cross your legs and lay your palms on your knees. The room must be silent for the first time that you meditate, and you must train your mind to ignore outside influences. Let your mind wander over your dealings throughout the past day, do not focus on details, but focus on the emotions that you felt at the time, when you believe that you have calmed your mind succinctly, then you will have mastered the primary force, that of clear thought.

05-23-2005, 08:30 PM	#3
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	Lesson the Third: Self Healing This lesson should only be attempted when one reaches a point in meditation when they feel they can control their mind sufficiently. Obviously you need mental pain to attempt, or there is no point at all! Begin your meditation as you would at any other time, sit in silence, eyes closed, palms on your knees. Visualise the pain, such as a headache, as a ball, imagine the size of the ball relative to your pain, and let it float freely about your aura. when you have regulated your breathing, and your mind has cleared, visualise a hand slowly pushing the ball, watch the ball as it gets smaller and smaller, until it recedes to a point that is so small that it can not be seen. When you have done this, push that tiny ball away from you, as far as you possibly can, and then regulaTE YOUR BREATHING PATTERNS ONCE AGAIN, AND GO BACK TO BASIC MEDITATION. Last edited by Last Child of Ungoliant : 05-24-2005 at 09:32 AM.

05-24-2005, 12:30 AM	#7
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Tips for beginners sit on an ottoman or a chair that is comfortable and gives support to your back if you need it. New Age music can be substituted for those who don't have or don't appreciate Asian music. Music, itself, isn't necessary it is an aid to attaining serenity of mind. Incense is optional, especially if it triggers alergies or asthma. Your mind will wander, try to bring it back to your breath. Concentrate on your breath, going in and down into your lungs and coming out. Breath in through your nose and out through your mouth. Try expanding your stomach on breath in and contract it all the way on breath out. no place for further tips just a note I'll try to supply them as I see openings for assisting. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

05-24-2005, 05:49 PM	#13
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	LCOU, that's great, now you should be able to "go back" to that place whenever you meditate. My experiences in Japan allow me to go back to mountain monastic teachings and to a monastery I studied at. I only use these two "locations" when I'm really out of sorts and need re-grounding but they work every time. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 05-24-2005 at 05:52 PM.

05-30-2005, 10:07 AM	#16
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Good article on modern medicines acknowledgement of Breathing http://health.discovery.com/centers/...epbreathe.html __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

05-23-2005, 08:09 PM	#2
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	Lesson the Second: Outside Stimuli. By now you should have successfully mastered the basics of breathing, and keeping a clear head. Now we shall move on to aids to meditation. First, make yourself a cup of hot tea. The tea should be Chinese, and black, you may add a little sugar or honey if you wish, although I do not recommend it. It is important that you do not use Indian, African or blended teas, these present entirely the wrong flavour and scent. The best teas to use are Lapsang Souchong and Rose Pouchong. Next light an incense stick, preferably Patchouli or Jasmine at this stage, or if you do not have incense sticks, an oil burner will give the same effect. When using music as a meditationary aid, the best music to listen to is traditional Asian music, Japanese or Tibetan preferably. The Mantra to Avalokiteshvra is most effective. When all is ready, repeat lesson 1, with these outside stimuli, take in the music, but do not focus on sounds themselves, but on the thoughts and emotions that these sounds produce in your mind.

05-23-2005, 08:33 PM	#4
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	And now, on to the discussion... What do you think of meditation? Do you meditate? Have you tried/will you try my basic methods? Any other points on the nature of meditation? I personally believe that meditation allows us to calm our minds, and it also enables us to become more in tune with our body, I have meditated in the past, for instance, to remove headaches, and that has worked for me. It inspires peace in the mind and peace in the body. ... now, discuss away!

05-24-2005, 12:58 AM	#8
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	Step Four: The Force Once you have mastered meditation, and found your inner strength, you must learn to control the Force. It surrounds us, and binds the galaxy together... For me, trying to meditate doesn't work. But I've found that if I sit down, or lay down, and start to pray the Rosary I almost INSTANTLY enter that 'meditative' state--as well, I feel much emotionaly stronger for as much as two days after having prayed the Rosary, and that state of calmness sticks with me.

05-24-2005, 09:33 AM	#9
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	Lesson the Third has now been placed. interesting thoughts, tessar, it would seem, to me that is, that your prayer offers the same benefits to you as i find in mahayana meditation

05-24-2005, 01:36 PM	#10
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	I agree, also "drumming" in the culture of Indians does similar things. I've experienced it and it was quite intense.

05-24-2005, 04:33 PM	#11
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	when i travelled in asia, i visited a remote mongolian village, and luckily the shaman was visiting that village at the time, and they permitted me to participate, and that also allowed me to enter into a meditative state

05-24-2005, 05:03 PM	#12
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I think that the rosary is kind of nice, because it gives really devout Christians who would find meditation too weird with an excuse to meditate. When I was a Christian, I used to pray the rosary every once in a while combined with traditional meditation. I think you gave some good tips, Chrys, and Spock. I may try it out. I just got back from sitting on the beach in the sun drawing and looking at the clouds for an hour so I'm sort of in the mood for a good meditation. I love doing it outside, when it's warm. That way, when you open your eyes (I keep mine half closed half open) the world around looks so much more beautiful, because you look around and notice it more, I've found. I think the hardest part of meditating for me is I always think of some food that sounds good or a story I want to write.

05-30-2005, 10:25 AM	#18
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	thanks, Chrys, enjoy the day and be in the moment. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Great Quest	Mathron	RPG Forum	405	06-01-2001 12:52 PM