By land, air, and sea!

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

I have seen threads on "What if the Fellowship to a sea route?" "What if they went this way nto that way!?" I was wondering, and pardon me if this has ben brought up before, if it would have been easier to take a passage by air. As we all know by modern warfair, those whole rule the sky's rule the war. So if maybe one Elf, or one Hobbit, took to the back of Gwaihir, flew to the pinicale of Mt. Doom, and then cast the ring from there, would the war not be over sooner and safer? I understand the Nazgul would have their Fell beasts but in accordance with those Elrond and Co. could trick the eye's of Mordor as Aragorn did at the Black Gates.
As I see it, after the counsil of Elrond, Aragorn and Boromir would travel to Gondor and Rohan to gather a force, Gimli could return to Erabor, and Legolas to Mirkwood, they could muster a force to counter Mordor and Dul Guldur alng with Lorien and Imladris. Gondor/Rohan would be the main focus of attack for Mordor as was in the book but with all the peoples of ME acting as one it will keep all eyes off One hobbit, on One Eagle. Also the remaining eagle army could defend agasint the Nazgul and the Fell beasts.
Yet as I read my theory one strange question springs up in my mind, would Gwaihir have desired the ring? Could there have been a Eagle Lord of the Ring!? So... what do you think of this Airborne means of attack!? Could it work!? And what of Gwaihir?
Also feel free to discuse other means of getting the task done, as the title says, by land air and sea, so what other means sound like a better game plan!?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I to have asked this question before being told that it was nonsense and wouldn't succed.

[BeardofPants]

Doubtfully. The whole purpose of the mission wasn't to ring the doorbell and alert sauron to the fact that the ring had been found, and was in possession of Frodo. It would have been just too risky....

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Sauron knew that the ring was found. Thats why the nazgul were dispatched! Do you think that the nine were randomly released on the shire!? Of course not, anything ta that point was risky, a fellowship walking to mordor was more risky than anything i can think of. Frodo moving with great spead and great stealth upon an eagle would be easier and quicker and safer than anything else. The attention would have been pulled of Frodo and the eagle by the armies of ME! Ring the doorbell you say, inevitably that is what Tolkien did have them do! Aragorn rang the doorbell at the black gates! So the airial plan would not be the "Hello I'm Here!" tactic you seem to think it'd be, after all, Sauron knew the ring was found, he had Gollum, he sent the nine to recover the ring in the Shire, his eye was then fixed on Imladris! Once the council was formed Sauron was already laying down plans to get the ring from them!

[Radagast The Brown]

Halbarad, I'm sure Sauron could see the eagles coming. He might even not be able to stop them when they're flying, if the Nazgul weren't there, but if he guards the Mountain, knowing they'll go there, they'll have no chance to ruin the Ring. While in our story, Suaron didn't know of the Fellowship, or thought they were going to try to ruin the Ring - he thought they were going to fight over it and try to use it against him.

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

If his eye can see such a broad span then surley he could see two hobbits walking past his own land and thru it. I don't expect The council to tell Sauron, hey we're sending eagles! The main host of men, elves, dwarves, and eagles will be somehwere else! Gwhair flys far south then up the harad region, and to Ordruin from the south. If Sauron beleived that Aragorn or Elrond or aomeone else of the "war" diversion had the ring he would put all forces to defend and attack them. If he thought they had the ring, one eagle flying south, even if he could see it, would be of no importance to him. He would not know the errand of the eagle, so it would be essentialy the same, only quicker and safer.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

If his eye can see such a broad span then surley he could see two hobbits walking past his own land and thru it. I don't expect The council to tell Sauron, hey we're sending eagles! The main host of men, elves, dwarves, and eagles will be somehwere else! Gwhair flys far south then up the harad region, and to Ordruin from the south. If Sauron beleived that Aragorn or Elrond or aomeone else of the "war" diversion had the ring he would put all forces to defend and attack them. If he thought they had the ring, one eagle flying south, even if he could see it, would be of no importance to him. He would not know the errand of the eagle, so it would be essentialy the same, only quicker and safer.

Eagles flying towards Mordor will be noticedmore easily, I n my opinion, than hobbits, walking in Ithilien, or going through Cirith Ungul. Even if there's a diversion.
Also, I don't think the Eagles waere supposed to help the people of Middle Earth so much - to solve their problems. They were senders of Manwe, and if he wanted to just save them he could, easily.
Moreover, I think it's much more interesting as it is - think of how short it'd be if they just needed to go up an eagle, fly and throw the Ring to Mount. Doom.

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

Of course it is uneventful, and it is simple, but intelligently, from a military tactical viewpoint it would have been, probably, the smartest way to go. I would not dream of changing the book, im speaking hypothetically. What if, and wouldn't this be a better [tacticly] method!?
Also the eagles helped several times in the aid of the destruction of the ring. Providing Gandalf with airial transport more than once, providing a defense against the Nazgul at the Black Gates, providing a transport and an air lift for Frodo and Samwise. I with the current plan the eagles were used quite a bit more. Iam not saying that elrond would command them to do his bidding, I feel they would have willingly helped, as they alreay did in the documented book.
Finally, like I said the eagles would not fly diretly over Barad-dur, or directly towards Orodruin. From the south would be the most stealthy. Also As the eagles flies is faster than anything else can move, even they flying nazgul could not match speed, however in my theory they would not be present. Gaurds would not be placed to guard something Sauron would not expect to be attacked; Ordruin.

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

Sauron knew that the ring was found. Thats why the nazgul were dispatched! .... blah blah blah

Halbarad, can you stop yelling... I'm not deaf you know! (Oh wait, yes I am. )

I know that Sauron already knew that the ring had been found. Sheesh. Keep your pants on. (unless of course you want to give them to me.) The point is that by air, you can be seen for miles off. On the ground, you'd stick out no more than an ant would. Mordor was well guarded. How do you propose to have the party swoop down without being taken down by either the nazgul, or some other fell creature? The whole point on having Aragorn's party ring the doorbell was so that the backdoor would be not be watched, that is true. But there is a difference between a small hobbit (and remember hobbit's have the ability to not be seen when they want, this is why hobbits were so important in the war of the ring, and the plundering of smaug) slipping through the back door, and a giant ruddy eagle swooping down towards Mt. Doom which is only a stone's throw from Sauron's place of leisure...

[trolls' bane]

I agree with both of you (this is about the time the sheep should come in and shout "Four legs good, two legs bad"). But to do so, I would have to combine both of your theories. I think that it would be a good idea to fly to Mordor, but not all the way to Mt Doom. Perhaps dropping off the hobits near the Sea of Nurnen, thus avoiding Saruman, and Merry and Pippin's imprisonment, but unfortunately Gandalf the Grey would suffer not becoming the White. Or, better yet, fly in, but, if it was possible, the joined armies of the Dwarves of Erebor/Elves of the Lonely Mountain attack Sauron from the top/back, some of Gondor goes and attacks the south, the rest of Gondor and Rohan attack from the front, so while Sauron is occupying his time with that, the eagles fly in without them being noted, and it's all over, at least for sauron, I guess.

[Lefty Scaevola]

I strongly suspect that sauron had defensive power against ariel spies and other intrusion aloft, and until he and the Barad Dur collapse, that nothing flew over Gogorth without his permission.

[BeardofPants]

*strongly suspects that Lefty may have something there...*

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Or, better yet, fly in, but, if it was possible, the joined armies of the Dwarves of Erebor/Elves of the Lonely Mountain attack Sauron from the top/back,

Elves of Erebor?

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

I agree with both of you (this is about the time the sheep should come in and shout "Four legs good, two legs bad"). But to do so, I would have to combine both of your theories. I think that it would be a good idea to fly to Mordor, but not all the way to Mt Doom. Perhaps dropping off the hobits near the Sea of Nurnen, thus avoiding Saruman, and Merry and Pippin's imprisonment, but unfortunately Gandalf the Grey would suffer not becoming the White. Or, better yet, fly in, but, if it was possible, the joined armies of the Dwarves of Erebor/Elves of the Lonely Mountain attack Sauron from the top/back, some of Gondor goes and attacks the south, the rest of Gondor and Rohan attack from the front, so while Sauron is occupying his time with that, the eagles fly in without them being noted, and it's all over, at least for sauron, I guess.

It has been noted before that the Eagles were never intended to be a 'Middle-earth taxi service'... they were CERTAINLY not the Strategic Air Force of the Grand Field Marshal of the Middle-earth Good Guys.

They might occasionally do a favor for a friend who had proven himself true, if they happened to be around... but they were not reservists to be called up in time of trouble.

The fate of the Ring was left in the hands of the Free Peoples of Middle-earth. That did not include Eagles. Nor do I think Hobbits would have taken to such a sea voyage... and from Rivendell, it would take almost as long to even REACH the sea as to reach their final goal, with less friends along the way. And besides... what if they get there and manage to get themselves a 9-person boat? So then they're out in the sea and get surrounded by a fleet of Corsairs from Umbar...

Bad scene... really bad.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

It was destroyed anyway so as long it was destroyed it doesn't matter how they do it.

[Attalus]

AARGH! This argument, again. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times. Mount Doom was like Mount St. Helens. There was no open caldera (crater). Show me one citation that there was an open crater. You had to go into the Sammath Naur, where the Ring was forged to get rid of the Ring. It was at the end of a long tunnel. If Sauron had the slightest idea that they were going to try to destroy the Ring, one troop of Orcs at the opening to the Sammath Naur would have caused the Quest to fail. And, anyway, Frodo wouldn't have been able to give up the Ring! There. I feel better, now.

[BeardofPants]

'Tis okay, attalus... Just lie down, and it'll all feel better in the morning. Maybe you'll feel up to another Wing debate, then?

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

'Tis okay, attalus... Just lie down, and it'll all feel better in the morning. Maybe you'll feel up to another Wing debate, then?

Originally Posted by TB

I agree with both of you (this is about the time the sheep should come in and shout "Four legs good, two legs bad"). But to do so, I would have to combine both of your theories. I think that it would be a good idea to fly to Mordor, but not all the way to Mt Doom. Perhaps dropping off the hobits near the Sea of Nurnen, thus avoiding Saruman, and Merry and Pippin's imprisonment, but unfortunately Gandalf the Grey would suffer not becoming the White. Or, better yet, fly in, but, if it was possible, the joined armies of the Dwarves of Erebor/Elves of the Lonely Mountain attack Sauron from the top/back, some of Gondor goes and attacks the south, the rest of Gondor and Rohan attack from the front, so while Sauron is occupying his time with that, the eagles fly in without them being noted, and it's all over, at least for sauron, I guess.

If Attalus is correct, and Sauron would put guard on Smmath Naur if he thought there's the slightest chance they're goign to try to destroy the Ring - then the best way will not be to fly with teh Eagles. If one of Sauron's servants saw the Eagles - and this is likely to happen - then I think Suaron would think of the possibility they're going to destroy the Ring. My opinion, at least..

[Halbarad of the Dunedain]

But couldn't the eagles just be a scout or something? There is nothing in an eagle flying over land that screams out "im on a mission to destroy the ring!" Also like I have said before, Sauron(in this theory) would know as much of a "Destruction" plan as he did in Tolkiens Masterpeice. As I set it forth it was that Sauron had no idea still except the the ring was found, that there was no guard at or near Mt. Doom, and they made a tactical move to use the assisistance of the eagles.(who freely gave their service lets just say)

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

But couldn't the eagles just be a scout or something? There is nothing in an eagle flying over land that screams out "im on a mission to destroy the ring!" Also like I have said before, Sauron(in this theory) would know as much of a "Destruction" plan as he did in Tolkiens Masterpeice. As I set it forth it was that Sauron had no idea still except the the ring was found, that there was no guard at or near Mt. Doom, and they made a tactical move to use the assisistance of the eagles.(who freely gave their service lets just say)

No, the eagles are also the messengers, eyes, and ears of Manwe....I think Sauron might take exception to an eagle flying over Mordor, for whatever reason.

FB