Pakistani forces surround 'High-value' al Qaeda target

***Jonathan*** · 03-18-2004, 03:42 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc...eda/index.html

Quote:

Pakistani forces have surrounded what may be a "high-value" al Qaeda target in Pakistan near the border with Afghanistan, President Pervez Musharraf told CNN.

It is speculated that they have surrounded Ayman al-Zawahiri, bin Laden's closest man and the second in command of al Qaeda. The al Qaeda soldiers are making resistance though, but hopefully the Pakistanis can capture al-Zawahiri alive.

Let's see how this news develops...

Twista · 03-18-2004, 03:49 PM

Yeh i just heard that on the news a few moments ago. It would indeed be interesting to see him caught. Do you suppose Pakistan would hand him over to America if they catch him?

Lalaith_Elf · 03-18-2004, 03:56 PM

It would be good to see him caught. I think that America will probably try to take him off the Pakistanis' hands though.

Quote:

U.S. and Pakistani officials have said they believe bin Laden probably is in Pakistan near the border with Afghanistan.

It would be great if the capture of Ayman al-Zawahiri would bring closer the capture of Bin Laden. Do they have proof that he's still alive or are they just guessing that he still lives?

***Jonathan*** · 03-18-2004, 03:57 PM

Oh, you must have edited your post while I was replying to it.

I was saying that the Pakistani government has cooperated a lot with the US since the beginning of the war in Afghanistan, and the Pakistani forces have probably handed over a few captured al Qaeda members to the US in the past. So I think the Pakistanis would turn over this guy to the US too, should they capture him.

jerseydevil · 03-18-2004, 05:41 PM

I think Pakistan will hand him over to US authorities. Unless he kills himself. It has been said that even though publicly Musharraf is saying that we are not in Pakistan - privately we are.

Quote:

About 70,000 Pakistan troops are in the tribal regions and the recent offensive coincides with a major U.S. military operation on the other side of the border in Afghanistan to capture terror suspects.

Though a spring offensive across southern and eastern Afghanistan, called Operation "Mountain Storm", is yet to be officially launched, U.S. military operations there have been stepped up.

Powell just the other day named Pakistan a Key Ally - which gives them certain priveleges from America. It is just one step below being a NATO ally.

If we do catch Ayman al-Zawahiri alive - it may lead to the capture of bin Ladin - because chances are - that they are either near each other - or he knows where bin Ladin is. I am curious as to why they think it's al-Zawahiri and NOT bin Ladin though. For one thing - they don't even seem to really know for absolute certainty who it is.

Coney II · 03-18-2004, 05:42 PM

I'll be very surprised if this turns into anything concrete...........he won't be "caught" until much closer to November.

jerseydevil · 03-18-2004, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney II
I'll be very surprised if this turns into anything concrete...........he won't be "caught" until much closer to November.

I see you are at your conspiracy theories again.

has the US ever done anything right in your mind?

Insidious Rex · 03-18-2004, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twista
Yeh i just heard that on the news a few moments ago. It would indeed be interesting to see him caught. Do you suppose Pakistan would hand him over to America if they catch him?

I think the unofficial word among the administration is that theyd just assume let the pakistanis capture him officially so that they can torture him quickly and get information out of him about Bin Ladens wearabouts. Theres things that the pakistanis can do to prisoners that the US would have a much harder time getting away with.

Coney II · 03-18-2004, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jerseydevil
I see you are at your conspiracy theories again. has the US ever done anything right in your mind?

Jd, you know me well enough by now. You know that I won't get into this tired old tirade again with you. No matter how much you bait me.

Quote:

I think the unofficial word among the administration is that theyd just assume let the pakistanis capture him officially so that they can torture him quickly and get information out of him about Bin Ladens wearabouts. Theres things that the pakistanis can do to prisoners that the US would have a much harder time getting away with.

Yes, this does seem to be the common practice. At least that is what happened to the last lot of ranking Quaeeda members that Pakistan caught (did they ever hand them over to the US? I never followed the story after their initial capture)

jerseydevil · 03-18-2004, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Coney II
Jd, you know me well enough by now. You know that I won't get into this tired old tirade again with you. No matter how much you bait me.

I don't stoop to your level - i wasn't baiting you. I was asking a simple question based on your snide remark toward the US. Do you or do not think the US does anything good?

Quote:

Yes, this does seem to be the common practice. At least that is what happened to the last lot of ranking Quaeeda members that Pakistan caught (did they ever hand them over to the US? I never followed the story after their initial capture)

yes - countries that pracice torture - we will allow them to do the interrogation. But we will ultimately want to question them too. There were other countries, such as Yemen, we allowed to interrigate the al qaeda prisoners they captured before we took them into custody.

GrayMouser · 03-19-2004, 02:50 AM

I read that they think it's Zawahiri because he'd been reported in that location just before.

I also think he's too prominent for them to use the Pakistani "back-room" boys- as well, the Pakistani security forces are hotbeds of fundamentalist sympathizers.

Plus which I would imagine Musharraf would like to get this hot potato out of the country and off his hands as soon as possible.

I hope they do get him- though the symbolism is less, he's a more dangerous figure than bin Laden..

jerseydevil · 03-19-2004, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrayMouser
I read that they think it's Zawahiri because he'd been reported in that location just before.

That is what I am afraid of though. They got this information from captives and so forth. It could be a diversion. it wouldn't be the first. In 2001 during the war in Afganistan - they had people walking around with phones giving false information and leading us away from bin ladin. I assume that we have learned our lesson on that and aren't taking this at face value. The thing is - as mussaref said - Al Qaeda troops have fought hard like this - even when they weren't protecting a top level person - so it may very well be no one. it is only BELIEVED that it is.

Quote:

I also think he's too prominent for them to use the Pakistani "back-room" boys- as well, the Pakistani security forces are hotbeds of fundamentalist sympathizers.

Plus which I would imagine Musharraf would like to get this hot potato out of the country and off his hands as soon as possible.

I hope they do get him- though the symbolism is less, he's a more dangerous figure than bin Laden..

He is more dangerous than bin Ladin - he's the brains behind the operation. He's bin Ladin's mentor.

Beor · 03-19-2004, 08:50 AM

Quote:

That is what I am afraid of though. They got this information from captives and so forth. It could be a diversion. it wouldn't be the first. In 2001 during the war in Afganistan - they had people walking around with phones giving false information and leading us away from bin ladin. I assume that we have learned our lesson on that and aren't taking this at face value. The thing is - as mussaref said - Al Qaeda troops have fought hard like this - even when they weren't protecting a top level person - so it may very well be no one. it is only BELIEVED that it is.

Thing is that we have to follow the lead. What if the lead is correct and we do nothing? When we first got here in Iraq, we followed every informant we had, and more than one was just trying to get revenge on their neighbors, or whatever (so we threw them in jail), but lots more lead to actual weapons dealers or IED makers, or just bad guys in general. If you dont follow a lead, espically one that mentions a dude of such importance on the terrorist chain, then you may have just given up a chance to catch or kill him for good. May end up being a waste of time, but at least you know for sure that way.

jerseydevil · 03-19-2004, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beor
Thing is that we have to follow the lead. What if the lead is correct and we do nothing? When we first got here in Iraq, we followed every informant we had, and more than one was just trying to get revenge on their neighbors, or whatever (so we threw them in jail), but lots more lead to actual weapons dealers or IED makers, or just bad guys in general. If you dont follow a lead, espically one that mentions a dude of such importance on the terrorist chain, then you may have just given up a chance to catch or kill him for good. May end up being a waste of time, but at least you know for sure that way.

It's not that - it's just that the media is reporting it as a sure thing. If it ends up that it isn't him - everyone will forget that no one officially made a statement that it was him. All they will remember is that for the last 24 hours - that CNN and all the other news outlets have been reporting that Al-Zwahri is trapped. Ignoring the fact the everyone officially has said only that INDICATIONS show that they MAY be protecting someone. That is the problem. Not that the military is making a big deal out of it - I would expect nothing less.

I also hope that they aren't just going by this information.

Beor · 03-19-2004, 09:15 AM

Gotcha, man, my bad (also got your PM. I agree with everything, and good luck to your bro.)

Lefty Scaevola · 03-19-2004, 11:41 AM

There is supposed to be close to 500 Al-Quaeda and Taleban fighters there, I expect it to be a little bit bloody digging them out.

03-18-2004, 03:49 PM	#2
Twista Orodruin's Flame Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kananaskis, AB Posts: 1,194	Yeh i just heard that on the news a few moments ago. It would indeed be interesting to see him caught. Do you suppose Pakistan would hand him over to America if they catch him? __________________ Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist.

03-18-2004, 03:57 PM	#4
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Oh, you must have edited your post while I was replying to it. I was saying that the Pakistani government has cooperated a lot with the US since the beginning of the war in Afghanistan, and the Pakistani forces have probably handed over a few captured al Qaeda members to the US in the past. So I think the Pakistanis would turn over this guy to the US too, should they capture him. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 03-18-2004 at 07:31 PM.

03-19-2004, 02:50 AM	#11
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	I read that they think it's Zawahiri because he'd been reported in that location just before. I also think he's too prominent for them to use the Pakistani "back-room" boys- as well, the Pakistani security forces are hotbeds of fundamentalist sympathizers. Plus which I would imagine Musharraf would like to get this hot potato out of the country and off his hands as soon as possible. I hope they do get him- though the symbolism is less, he's a more dangerous figure than bin Laden.. __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

03-19-2004, 09:15 AM	#15
Beor founder of the color blue Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: E-Space Posts: 1,727	Gotcha, man, my bad (also got your PM. I agree with everything, and good luck to your bro.) __________________ Well, there it is.

03-18-2004, 05:42 PM	#6
Coney II Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: uk Posts: 134	I'll be very surprised if this turns into anything concrete...........he won't be "caught" until much closer to November.

03-19-2004, 11:41 AM	#16
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	There is supposed to be close to 500 Al-Quaeda and Taleban fighters there, I expect it to be a little bit bloody digging them out.