LOTR Grammar

[Yodaman]

I just had a question about LOTR grammar. In Westron, do they use conjugations such as Can't, Don't, won't, ect? I don't remember any in the books or the movies. thanks

[Valandil]

I don't (hmmm) remember off-hand, but you could watch for them as you re-read through.

On a related note, one thing I find interesting is a claim JRRT makes (I think in one of his letters) that he even used different speaking patterns for different characters... based on representations of how they would have spoken the common tongue. For example, some would speak in a more 'old fashioned' way, some more formally, some with more colloquialisms, etc.

THIS would be a major undertaking, but I wonder what commonalities we could spot if we had before us, all the 'lines' of each character. All Gandalf's quotes together, all Aragorn's, Elrond's, Frodo's, Sam's, Merry's, Pippin', Boromir's, Faramir's, Legolas's, Gimli's quotes... etc.

[Linaewen]

That's what I thought, and then I confirmed it by briefly flicking through a copy of FotR. The only people to use contractions (That I can remember) where hobbits. Other characters, like you listed Valandil, speak more formally. I agree, it is quite a major task, but I suppose when you get in the mood of writing it follows. For example, I imagine that when Tolkien was writing as Elrond that he'd be in the 'Elrond mood', in which case it would be very strange to suddenly throw a 'won't' or 'doesn't' in there.

[Ithildiel]

Yeah... seems to me that the hobbits do use the odd contraction, but Elves don't (or at least very rarely). But if dialogue doesn't sound natural - stick one in! You never know, it might work. I find that too many "nots" in one phrase make it clunky and unnatural, eg:

"Do not call me that! It is not fair." Not a very good example, but can't think of a better one offhand.

But that's just IMHO.

[Rían]

There's a very funny example in "Letters of JRRT" where he converts a formal speech into (his) modern English slang - I'll try to find it.

[Rían]

Here it is :

from Letter #171
" 'Nay, Gandalf!; said the King. 'You do not know your own skill in healing. It shall not be so. I myself will go to war, to fall in the front of the battle, if it must be. Thus shall I sleep better.'

...

I know well enough what a modern would say. 'Not at all my dear G. You don't know your own skill as a doctor. Things aren't going to be like that. I shall go to the war in person, even if I have to be one of the first casualties' ....

JRRT is talking about the appropriateness of the style in the case of Theoden.

[Beruthiel's cat]

Your example is fascinating, Rian. Tolkien is, I think, explaining the way fiction writers must think of writing dialouge if their writing is to be effective.

As a writer with a flair for dialogue (so I've been told, anyway...), writing dialouge has to follow the character's personality and can often be used to establish and strengthen a character's personality. It has to seem natural to that person. A reader must expect the character to speak and react that way.

Tolkien's use of dialouge is extremely effective in this regard. Everyone sounds "just right." The hobbits use more casual speech patterns than the elves. And if you read carefully, you can also detect differences in the use of language between individual characters (ie Frodo and Sam). This makes it easier to tell which character is speaking in a given situation where there is expository dialouge without having to rely on: "Frodo said, Sam exclaimed". It improves the flow of the story and the reader can progress without having to stop and think about who is speaking.

[Khamûl]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
I know well enough what a modern would say. 'Not at all my dear G...'

I laughed out loud when I read that. My first thought was something along the lines of Theoden going up to Gandalf and doing some kind of jive handshake after saying something like "What up, G?" Anyway... Carry on.

[Bombadillo]

I don't mean to stray too off topic, but does anyone think "now I know" is more casual than "I now know"? Gandalf switches between "I now know" and "I know now" and that irks me, because they don't seem to be equally noble.

[matthew]

The LotR's Gramma? I didn't know it HAD a grandmother.

Snicker Snicker.

Ha Ha.

Hahahahahahahahahahahohohohohohohehehehehehehehe!

Whahahahaha!

I'm in training for Olympic Jerkdom!

TeeHeeTeeHeeTeeHee