Allusions

Insidious Rex · 01-18-2004, 07:25 PM

Did anyone else catch the many allusions in the movie? i noticed direct references to Empire Strikes Back and Aliens. Even Monty Pythons Holy Grail. Its known that Jackson is a fan of all those movies so Im pretty sure I wasnt just seeing things. And Ive heard other people saw allusions to other movies as well. Anyone else notice this at all?

Twista · 01-18-2004, 07:32 PM

What do you been when you say allusions? Im sure what you been but Batman Forever was just on and the scene where Sam is in Cirith Ungol and he says 'that on is for the shire, that one is for frodo etc' is done in Batman with Robin and Joker.

Insidious Rex · 01-18-2004, 09:24 PM

Well thats one I hadnt thought of. I guess the most obvious allusion was to the scene in Empire Strikes Back with the emperial walkers attacking the rebel base and luke flying in and out of their legs and wrapping the wire around their legs and climbing underneath it to disable the walker and make it come crashing down. You can see almost the exact same thing when legolas is doing his little spiderman routine on the oliphants.

another one was Aragorns speech at the Black Gate and William Wallaces speech in Braveheart. Although the Braveheart speech is hard to top.

And yet another was sams last minute rescue of frodo from Shelob ("Get away from him you MONSTER!") and Ripley rescuing the little kid from the Queen Alien in Aliens ("Get away from her you BITCH!"). Almost down to the same exact voice tone.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-19-2004, 01:18 AM

Jackson copies!

Heh heh.

Ninquelote · 01-19-2004, 01:21 AM

Amateurs imitate, professionals steal.

Insidious Rex · 01-19-2004, 10:56 AM

The point is I think these were done purposefully. Because hes a fan. And he had the medium to do it in. I dont think its just copying or theft.

Durin1 · 01-19-2004, 12:07 PM

PJ must also have been a fan of The Goonies because his Orc general was an exact replica of that "freak" (can't remember the name) with the one eye below another. Pretty pathetic really.

thranduil · 01-19-2004, 06:12 PM

I know exactly who your talking about! Maybe a suggestion from Sean

Twista · 01-19-2004, 06:14 PM

Whoes Sean?

lol just trying out the colour at the same time

thranduil · 01-19-2004, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twista
Whoes Sean?

lol just trying out the colour at the same time

My memory is terrible right now but I thought Sean Austin played a part in the goonies.

Twista · 01-19-2004, 06:23 PM

Ahh ur correct mate:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089218/

Cirdan · 01-19-2004, 09:54 PM

The scene in TTT where Saruman is making the fire of orthanc and he grabs wormtongue's hand that is holding the candle is right from Army of Darkness.

Insidious Rex · 01-19-2004, 11:00 PM

I just heard another one today: Denethor bears a striking resemblance to Ozzy Osbourne. And kind of acts like him too.

***HOBBIT*** · 01-20-2004, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twista
What do you been when you say allusions? Im sure what you been but Batman Forever was just on and the scene where Sam is in Cirith Ungol and he says 'that on is for the shire, that one is for frodo etc' is done in Batman with Robin and Joker.

I don't think that this is an allusion. They do that in many movies. If anything, Batman took it from something else.

***Khamûl*** · 01-20-2004, 02:17 AM

I believe I noted the resemblance between the head orc and Sloth from Goonies in my original review of RotK.

Now that you mention it Cirdan, that is right out of Army of Darkness. I love that movie.

Eärloth · 01-20-2004, 04:57 AM

Sam's shouting "For the Shire" etc., although not in that precise moment of the book, was used in FotR, so that being an allusion to another movie or not is virtually impossible to depict unless PJ was to state it himself.

Never seen the Goonies, don't care if there were allusions

I just thought Elrond saying to Aragorn "Become who you were born to be" was kind of pretentious…its like all that One man…one way home bull they're using for Cold Mountain or In the heart of one man to advertise The Last Samurai: once upon a time, it might've been original, but we've ticked off about twelve hundred 'one man's and its really getting old

Btw, I thought the weird orc was cool – did any one else detect that it was Andy Serkis's voice they were using or is that just me?

Durin1 · 01-20-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärloth
Btw, I thought the weird orc was cool – did any one else detect that it was Andy Serkis's voice they were using or is that just me?

Cool?

It was pretty poor IMO. With regards to Andy Serkis - couldn't care less

The voice of Gollum was pretty bad in my opinion too.

Dúnedain · 01-20-2004, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eärloth
Btw, I thought the weird orc was cool – did any one else detect that it was Andy Serkis's voice they were using or is that just me?

Actually I think the ugly orc dude also played the Witch King. I'm pretty sure they were the same person playing those roles...

According to www.imdb.com it lists this:

Lawrence Makoare .... Witch King/Gothmog

**Nurvingiel** · 01-20-2004, 08:59 PM

Gothmog? Isn't that the name of the lord of the Balrogs? Wasn't he killed by Glorfindel in the Second age or something?

If Lawrence Makoare did play the popcorn-head orc and the Witch-King, he had a conversation with himself in at least one scene.

Dúnedain · 01-20-2004, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nurvingiel
Gothmog? Isn't that the name of the lord of the Balrogs? Wasn't he killed by Glorfindel in the Second age or something?

If Lawrence Makoare did play the popcorn-head orc and the Witch-King, he had a conversation with himself in at least one scene.

Gothmog was also the name of the Witch King's Chief Lieutenant at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and took over command when the Witch King was destroyed

Come on Nurv!! You should know this!!

Here is a quote:

Quote:

The Return of the King; The Battle of the Pelennor Fields, p. 828:

...There they had been mustered for the sack of the City and the rape of Gondor, waiting on the call of their Captain. He now was destroyed; but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray...

01-18-2004, 07:25 PM	#1
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Allusions Did anyone else catch the many allusions in the movie? i noticed direct references to Empire Strikes Back and Aliens. Even Monty Pythons Holy Grail. Its known that Jackson is a fan of all those movies so Im pretty sure I wasnt just seeing things. And Ive heard other people saw allusions to other movies as well. Anyone else notice this at all? __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

01-18-2004, 07:32 PM	#2
Twista Orodruin's Flame Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kananaskis, AB Posts: 1,194	What do you been when you say allusions? Im sure what you been but Batman Forever was just on and the scene where Sam is in Cirith Ungol and he says 'that on is for the shire, that one is for frodo etc' is done in Batman with Robin and Joker. __________________ Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist.

01-18-2004, 09:24 PM	#3
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	Well thats one I hadnt thought of. I guess the most obvious allusion was to the scene in Empire Strikes Back with the emperial walkers attacking the rebel base and luke flying in and out of their legs and wrapping the wire around their legs and climbing underneath it to disable the walker and make it come crashing down. You can see almost the exact same thing when legolas is doing his little spiderman routine on the oliphants. another one was Aragorns speech at the Black Gate and William Wallaces speech in Braveheart. Although the Braveheart speech is hard to top. And yet another was sams last minute rescue of frodo from Shelob ("Get away from him you MONSTER!") and Ripley rescuing the little kid from the Queen Alien in Aliens ("Get away from her you BITCH!"). Almost down to the same exact voice tone. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Last edited by Insidious Rex : 01-18-2004 at 09:25 PM.

01-19-2004, 01:21 AM	#5
Ninquelote Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here. For the time being. Posts: 336	Amateurs imitate, professionals steal. __________________ XIAN- for hating Wiccans. MURDERER- for hating vegetarians. PREP- for hating Goths. These are a few of my favourite things, the hypocritical stylings of the most "liberal" groups.

01-19-2004, 10:56 AM	#6
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	The point is I think these were done purposefully. Because hes a fan. And he had the medium to do it in. I dont think its just copying or theft. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

01-19-2004, 12:07 PM	#7
Durin1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 221	PJ must also have been a fan of The Goonies because his Orc general was an exact replica of that "freak" (can't remember the name) with the one eye below another. Pretty pathetic really. __________________ Durin the Sleepless!

01-19-2004, 06:12 PM	#8
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	I know exactly who your talking about! Maybe a suggestion from Sean

01-19-2004, 06:14 PM	#9
Twista Orodruin's Flame Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kananaskis, AB Posts: 1,194	Whoes Sean? lol just trying out the colour at the same time __________________ Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist.

01-19-2004, 06:23 PM	#11
Twista Orodruin's Flame Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Kananaskis, AB Posts: 1,194	Ahh ur correct mate: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089218/ __________________ Council of Entmoot - Foreign Affairs Minister - 2004-05 Visit the Ye Olde Avatar Shop and The New One Dont tell me what I cannot do Two men are on a Island, they both see a "monster", one sees a bright light, and the other sees a dark cloud My name bares no reference to the music artist.

01-19-2004, 09:54 PM	#12
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	The scene in TTT where Saruman is making the fire of orthanc and he grabs wormtongue's hand that is holding the candle is right from Army of Darkness. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

01-19-2004, 11:00 PM	#13
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	I just heard another one today: Denethor bears a striking resemblance to Ozzy Osbourne. And kind of acts like him too. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

01-20-2004, 02:17 AM	#15
*Khamûl* Slacker Warrior Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,759	I believe I noted the resemblance between the head orc and Sloth from Goonies in my original review of RotK. Now that you mention it Cirdan, that is right out of Army of Darkness. I love that movie. __________________ "If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you." Gandalf to Pippin Psalm 107:31

01-20-2004, 04:57 AM	#16
Eärloth Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: EsCaPiNg FrOm tHiS HeLL iNtO My NiGHtMaReS Posts: 312	Sam's shouting "For the Shire" etc., although not in that precise moment of the book, was used in FotR, so that being an allusion to another movie or not is virtually impossible to depict unless PJ was to state it himself. Never seen the Goonies, don't care if there were allusions I just thought Elrond saying to Aragorn "Become who you were born to be" was kind of pretentious…its like all that One man…one way home bull they're using for Cold Mountain or In the heart of one man to advertise The Last Samurai: once upon a time, it might've been original, but we've ticked off about twelve hundred 'one man's and its really getting old Btw, I thought the weird orc was cool – did any one else detect that it was Andy Serkis's voice they were using or is that just me? __________________ Lothên will be found! Telperinai pennar niei rossenen, iéni únótimai be m?ri Aiaro! Man erca óre nio ettuccuba? S? mapuba Ulmo ciria ma be findi-falla; Baradis mentuba i Elestel i en tulia me Annúne pella, nimpei srestanai or helle cúna, helle rácina. Nan merin minia lóte elanar an sire cenin Ennor tellabe. Namárie! Autame Balinórena, Ennórelo autai! Namárie!

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