Rap is not music

[IronParrot]

Discuss.

[Lizra]

It's poetry. They'll stick some back up singers making a few melodic phrases, or sample a melody or riff from the past, but 95% of it is just staccato words delivered in a rhythmic fashion. I always think of Mohammed Ali as one of the first to "rap" with his self boasting. Someone said "The Last Poets" were the first rappers, It's a stretch, but maybe! I'll go with Ali, and then JJ from "Good Times". Course it was happening on the street before JJ!

[Jonathan]

Rap is a form of poetry, as Lizra said. It's a form of art. And since rap always includes some kind of ryhtm and most of the times music instruments, I define rap as music.

Art/poetry + ryhtm + music instruments = music to me.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Would just like to point out that you can't spell "crap" without "rap".

[Comic Book Guy]

Rap is a form of poetry, as Lizra said. It's a form of art. And since rap always includes some kind of ryhtm and most of the times music instruments, I define rap as music.

Art/poetry + ryhtm + music instruments = music to me.

What musical instruments do you hear in rap? All I ever seem to hear is drum machines and backing tracks. Also, as rapping = talking fastly, they're not using their voices as instruments.

Rhythm, right. Heres me thinking that they're talking randomly and vaguely in time to their drum machines.

I once heard somebody say that the best rappers are as good as the most accomplished violin virtusos. I seriously doubt that Eminem practises talking 12 hours a day.

[Hasty Ent]

What is music? My own definition would have it as a form of creative expression that is produced within a system including one or all of these components (and I'm sure there are more): rhythm, narrative, texture, melody, harmony, dynamic range, etc. These elements are combined by one or more performers in such a way that they create a composition.

While I am not a fan of rap, I certainly consider it to be a valid musical form.

Was John Cage a composer? He most certainly was. One of his best known works, 4' 33" (written in 1952), consists of four minutes and thirty-three seconds in which the performer is seated at a piano and plays nothing.

Thankfully, the world is vast enough to contain an infinite range of expression. Whether these are voices that resonate for you is simply a matter of personal taste.

[Comic Book Guy]

My own definition would have it as a form of creative expression that is produced within a system including one or all of these components (and I'm sure there are more): rhythm, narrative, texture, melody, harmony, dynamic range, etc. These elements are combined by one or more performers in such a way that they create a composition.

I agree with your definition, but technically rap does not contain any of those components listed in any musical form or structure.

This discussion has nothing to do with personal tastes and preferences, it's about the music creditionals of rap, according to those 4 words anyway. Care to help us out IP?

[Hasty Ent]

But it does have structure, CBG. There is a beginning, middle and end. The narrative has structure. The spoken words accompanied by the rhythms create a pattern.

[Lady Tinuveil]

I do not think rap is music; maybe the ones who actually play the music, can be considered artists. Any one can practice and be a 'rapper'. Most dont even write theyre own,(music) the newbees just buy their beats. But it does take talent to write so many words to a song. I will give them some credit, if they started writing better lyrics.

[Elvengirl]

Rap is not music
What else is there to discuss? It lacks melody and harmony and not to mention euphony. Yes, it has rhythm, but that does not mean it is music.

But there are some artists who are putting melody in their songs and starting to sing. But the origional rap, I don't consider music.

[Hasty Ent]

So if it lacks melody and harmony it's not music?

What about the talking drums of Africa?

Tibetan chants?

The Western European musical tradition is only one of many.

[Elvengirl]

That is my idea of music.
Of the chants and drums that I have heard, they did have a measure of harmony.
Rap, just consists of fast talking with no vocal singing involved. If anything it would be a form of poetry.

[gdl96]

Most of rap "music" is just "samples" of other songs. In other words, rap=theft.

[Hasty Ent]

So a visual artist who produces collages from found materials is not an artist, but a thief?

[gdl96]

Foiled....must think of response...

I guess I'm still bitter about Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen and David Bowie.........

[Hasty Ent]

I'm with you there!

[Firekitten2006]

Rap in my opinion is not music. I did have a really good argument supporting this...but its dissapeared from my head. I'll come back later when I remember

[Baby-K]

I guess I'm still bitter about Vanilla Ice ripping off Queen and David Bowie.........

Yeah, but Vanilla Ice was a wannabe, he can not be compared to guys like Eminem, 50 Cent, JaRule, JayZee, Missy Elliot, PDiddy, Wyclef Jean etc in terms of lyrical style and audience impact.

IMO rap is music, and yes a lot of their stuff is done on backtracks and samples - they use their voices (or rather their ability to weild their voices in different ways) as their 'instruments' - their lyrics are what count, but this does not make them different from DJ's such as DJ Sammy, Paul van Dyk, Paul Oakenfold or Carl Cox - they have massive followings & their work is considered 'music' yet al they are doing is mixing tracks from other artists to create a new, fresh sound - how do you think house music, trance, trip hop, acid jazz and funk got started? Music is forever evolving as it should - Rock 'n Roll wasn't considered to be music either & look where it's got us today.

I think rappers are the street poets of today - they are the advocates, judge & jury of society's shortcomings & face it they call it as they see it. They might not be 100% right, but that's their artistic freedom I guess.

I'm not necessarily a big fan of rap, but I enjoy a lot of the music that springs forth in that genre, just as I enjoy most other forms of music.

[Celebréiel]

sheesh. I have to say im a little suprised.
Anywho, while I dont like rap all that much, I would consider it music. I think what every one considers music is totally different and I would love to keep it that way. I like music being kinda open ended...
Sure some rap is really....really stupid and slapped together but I think to say something like 'rap is not music' is a pretty harsh to rappers out there that are genuinely trying to make good music and putting their thoughts into a musical form they like...er...yeah.
Isnt it always true that what some people consider noise is music to someone else?

[Lizra]

I guess it's how you define music! I'm looking for original melody. Recombining stuff so that it's ultra "catchy", better to dance to, plays up to a certain attitude.......well I'm not sure I would call that "Music" (with a capital "M" you see)! Creating music, and having a good ear for music (so that you can skillfully manipulate and rearrange other musicians work) are two different things (IMO) The words are just poetry, till they are put in a melody. Just timing and words is not enough!
Course, I was never too keen on Andy Warhol either! Blowing up, and coloring a person's picture never struck me as art! Just someone ripping off their poetry to a rhythym track, with a famous catchy riff thrown in every tenth beat isn't making music to me, just rearranging it for fun and profit! Since everything has been done before (not true, but it seems that way ) rap fills a void.