Frodo’s memories of Balin

[Alcuin]

“The Bridge of Khazad-dûm” begins,

The Company of the Ring stood silent beside the tomb of Balin. Frodo thought of Bilbo and his long friendship with the dwarf, and of Balin’s visit to the Shire long ago. In that dusty chamber in the mountains it seemed a thousand years ago and on the other side of the world.

As I reread that again today, I also reread my note in the margin. To simplify using Appendix B,

2942 - Bilbo returns to the Shire with the Ring.
2949 - Gandalf and Balin visit Bilbo in the Shire.
2968 - Birth of Frodo.
2989 - Balin leaves Erebor and enters Moria
2994 - Balin perishes, and the dwarf-colony is destroyed.
3019 - The Bridge of Khazad-dûm, and fall of Gandalf. (January 15)

So Gandalf and Balin’s visit with Bilbo, Frodo’s birth, Balin’s departure from Erebor, and the discovery of Balin’s are separated by twenty years apiece. (With a little wiggle room for Frodo’s birth. And the last jump is thirty years.)

Unless Balin visited Bilbo a second time before he entered Moria, and Tolkien failed to note it in his official timeline, “Balin’s visit to the Shire long ago” was not a memory of Frodo’s: his was a memory of Bilbo’s recollecting the visit, and possibly Gandalf, too.

Bilbo might have told of the visit several times: he was particularly fond of Balin, who seems to have been his favorite among Thorin & Company. Speaking to Frodo in Rivendell, he expressed disappointment that, “Old Balin had gone away,” when he visited Dale and Erebor. That must have as soon as he left the Shire, since Appendix B says

3001 - Bilbo's farewell feast
3002 - Bilbo becomes a guest of Elrond, and settles in Rivendell.

But it sounds as if Frodo himself recalled Balin’s visit to Hobbiton, not only on a first reading, but for many readings afterwards. Does this bother anyone else? Is it an inconsistency, or just something easily misunderstood in casual reading? Is it even an issue for you?

[Alec]

He could have been thinking of Bilbo's memory.

Or maybe everyone knew when Balin came and that's how Frodo remembers it like when Gandalf comes.

Or he could of visited right before he left to Moria.

In the beginning of the FOTR he tells the age of Bilbo when he adopted Frodo (99). When he was 111 Frodo was 33. so subtract the difference between Bilbo age at the party and when he adopted Frodo that's 12 years. subtract 12 years from the year that the party happened and it the same year that Balin left for Moria. so Balin could have stop at the shire to say hi to Bilbo before going to Moria. I think it could be any of the three.

Tell me if I was of any help.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

But it sounds as if Frodo himself recalled Balin’s visit to Hobbiton, not only on a first reading, but for many readings afterwards. Does this bother anyone else? Is it an inconsistency, or just something easily misunderstood in casual reading? Is it even an issue for you?

I have always had the impression that Balin would have visited more than once afterwards, although I don't recall any text right away to support that notion. To go by the data provided in your posts the texts seem rather to deny the notion than to support it. So my impression is likely wrong.

It doesn't sound to me from the quote that Frodo recalls Balin himself. The first thing he thinks about is Bilbo and his relationship with Balin. If Frodo had any memories of Balin himself, if he even knew how he looked like, those would logically have been first in his mind.

Therefor I'd say that Frodo probably didn't know or had met Balin personally, and that all his memories were only through Bilbo. Considering the old chap was rather fond of his adventure and stories, I wouldn't be at all surprised that he had recounted them so often that Frodo knew them very well too.

It is also possible that the specific visit Frodo is thinking of is not a visit he could have been present at, but rather the one fateful meeting so many years ago that started Bilbo on his path to adventures... and the Ring. Which has a direct bearing on the situation Frodo now finds himself in at the tomb of Balin.

[Alec]

That makes sense. I thought that maybe everyone knew when Balin came and that's how Frodo remembers it like when Gandalf comes. But yours makes more sense.

[Valandil]

I guess I was aware of the timing of things when I read it the first time, and just assumed it was Frodo's memories of Bilbo recounting the visit - just summarized. Never gave it a second thought until Alcuin started this thread.

Good point though, Alcuin. AND... great to see you around here a bit more! Hope all is well.

[Butterbeer]

I'd always just assumed it was memories recounted by Bilbo. Reads that way to me, on second glance, and that was always my initial reading of it

I very much doubt Balin ever came west of the Mountains prior to trying to restore Moria.

[Beren3000]

I don't know why you're reading it as if Frodo was recollecting his own memories of Balin. It says he "thought ... of Balin's visit to the Shire long ago". This doesn't necessarily mean he's recollecting first-hand experience.
I can say "I thought of the time when Neil Armstrong stepped on the Moon" even though it happened long before I was born.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Could be either way, recalling through Bilbo, or a subsequent visit. Balin spent much of his life in the Blue Mountains, and no doubt had many connections there, and he seemed to get around a lot (and recall the Great East Road is also named the Dwarf Road, contraucted by them in ancient times to connect the various Dwarf realms). I would be suprised if he did not make several journeys between Erebor and the the Ered Luin.

[GrayMouser]

I don't have my book with me, but at the end of the reading of Balin's diary, Frodo says something like "He is dead. I feared it so" as if there was some connection between the two. It always struck me as being a liittle out of place- why is Frodo shoving himself forward here instead of Gimli or even Gandalf?