Classical Music II

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Oh, okay, that's what I thought, sort of...

Only up to a certain point, then it gives me a headache. Since it was extremely hot (the desert is finally making up for its cold!), it didn't help very much either.

Well, maybe you...*tries to think up reason*...need Widor?

[Whispering Willow]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

And to start out, I just want to complain about how kids these days (excluding me and a very very miniscule--probably "one part per million" to use scientific terms--number of others) don't know ANYTHING about classical.

Please forgive me?

I may put on a classical CD every now and then, usually a collection with various composers, and have no clue what is what, I just listen to the stuff. Started putting it on my computer, but adding the correct info to the files (I'm kinda obsessive about that) took me forever, so I abandoned the project.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Whispering Willow

Please forgive me?

I may put on a classical CD every now and then, usually a collection with various composers, and have no clue what is what, I just listen to the stuff. Started putting it on my computer, but adding the correct info to the files (I'm kinda obsessive about that) took me forever, so I abandoned the project.

You'll have to excuse Mr.TB in a moment of passion, all of us Classicists tend to get too hyped up for our own good...

Welcome to Entmoot!

[trolls' bane]

Moment of passion? What's that? What did I do? Did I kill someone? *blinks at imagined D.A.*
Imagined Jury: We find the defendant, Mr. Helliwell, guilty of murder in the second degree.
Rod Serling: Nope.
Jury: *gasp* You were dead!
Dr. Zaius: But, I killed you!
Rod Serling: You idiot! *throws the same cast iron skillet that Dr. Z. used to "kill" him at Dr. Z. It bounces harmlessly off his head* This is the Twilight Zone, not Law & Order.
Jack MacCoy, the District Attourney: Objection! Heresy!
Dr. Z: That's my line, pal. Don't you go insulting the gangstuhs!
MacCoy: But I'm on your side...
Dr. Z: Oh, I's sorry, dawg. I just don't like none of them humans.
Carl Sagan: But, there are billions and billions of humans!
Judge (who happens to be named Harry Callouhaun): Shut up! Or I'll shoot you with my .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and will blow your head clean off. Do you feel lucky today? Well, DO ya, punk?

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Moment of passion? What's that? What did I do? Did I kill someone? *blinks at imagined D.A.*
Imagined Jury: We find the defendant, Mr. Helliwell, guilty of murder in the second degree.
Rod Serling: Nope.
Jury: *gasp* You were dead!
Dr. Zaius: But, I killed you!
Rod Serling: You idiot! *throws the same cast iron skillet that Dr. Z. used to "kill" him at Dr. Z. It bounces harmlessly off his head* This is the Twilight Zone, not Law & Order.
Jack MacCoy, the District Attourney: Objection! Heresy!
Dr. Z: That's my line, pal. Don't you go insulting the gangstuhs!
MacCoy: But I'm on your side...
Dr. Z: Oh, I's sorry, dawg. I just don't like none of them humans.
Carl Sagan: But, there are billions and billions of humans!
Judge (who happens to be named Harry Callouhaun): Shut up! Or I'll shoot you with my .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and will blow your head clean off. Do you feel lucky today? Well, DO ya, punk?

*reads newspaper*




And by the way, very exciting!

Added:

Berlioz: Benvenuto Cellini/John Nelson
Shostakovich: String Quartets 1-15/Fitzwilliam Quartet

The John Nelson recording was recommended by my Gramaphone guide, and apperantly he includes every bar that Berlioz wrote for the score...

[hectorberlioz]

Bingo! I got them...I listened to all of Benvenuto Cellini yesterday, now today I'll start on the Shostakovich...

(btw, Ben...Cellini is wonderful. The roman carnival scene is stupendous).

[hectorberlioz]

To the ones who know about it...what do you guys think about The ring Cycle in English?

Apperantly Sir Renigald Goodall and his band have recorded the whole cycle, astoundingly in a great english translation.

It's an almost two hours extra longer than the usual 13-14 hours of other cycles. There is criticism about the slow tempos apperantly, but my Gramaphone guide says No biggie, and that there is wondrous detail, and very fine performances, esp. Wotan.

So...I may as well get it, eh?

[Elfhelm]

I'd say no, Hector. Because Wagner fancied himself a poet and he wasn't so any translation is bound to either improve the language, and thereby create a false impression, or transfer the awful writing to English. So in this case, ignorance is bliss.

Beside, German is close enough to English that you can follow it in the libretto.

Lately I've been explore Verdi's middle period, the so-called Galley Years. Most people only know of Macbeth from that time, but I wanted to know more. I started by asking myself, if Verdi had died before Rig-Trav-Trov, what would we remember of him? After Bellini dies prematurely, and Donizetti grew older just repeating himself, there was Verdi. Donizetti died just at the beginning of Verdi's middle period. That means the Galley Years, which comprise some 12 operas, were the only predecessors to the musical revolution of his own Rig-Trav-Trov.

Other than that, I downloaded some albums from iTunes: Britten's War Requiem, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, that's about it.

edit: I go for the Solti Ring Cycle.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

I'd say no, Hector. Because Wagner fancied himself a poet and he wasn't so any translation is bound to either improve the language, and thereby create a false impression, or transfer the awful writing to English. So in this case, ignorance is bliss.

Beside, German is close enough to English that you can follow it in the libretto.

Lately I've been explore Verdi's middle period, the so-called Galley Years. Most people only know of Macbeth from that time, but I wanted to know more. I started by asking myself, if Verdi had died before Rig-Trav-Trov, what would we remember of him? After Bellini dies prematurely, and Donizetti grew older just repeating himself, there was Verdi. Donizetti died just at the beginning of Verdi's middle period. That means the Galley Years, which comprise some 12 operas, were the only predecessors to the musical revolution of his own Rig-Trav-Trov.

Other than that, I downloaded some albums from iTunes: Britten's War Requiem, Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition, that's about it.

The only bad thing about me replying to this thread is that other mooters think, when they see it, that it hasn't been "updated". ...and so they dont reply.

I really did want to hear the Valkyries sing in english...
You know, I might just NOT listen to you about this ...

This middle period was when Luisa Miller and I Vespri were composed I do believe? And speaking of I Italiano(there's a hidden pun there), what do you think about Bonyge/Sutherland/and Pavarotti team for Donizetti's "L'eliser d'amore"?

And btw, the conductors and artists of the Britten and Mussorgsky?

[Elfhelm]

I think you can't go wrong with Sutherland when it comes to Donizetti, Pavarotti is OK I'm just not a fan. He can't hurt it anyway.

I just got the cheap version of "Pictures" at iTunes, Daniel Nazareth and the Slovak Phil. Never heard of 'em before, and it was my first online purchase so I didn't want to waste money. I figured for $6 I couldn't go wrong, and it's true. It has been entertaining light stuff for the bus ride to work.

The Britten, I got the Britten/Pears/Fischer-Diskau/etc. I just got it, in fact, and have only listened twice. I still haven't formed an opinion. I might get another copy someday conducted by someone I admire. But my initial take on it is that I'd love to sing it. The symphonic choir is doing Mozart this year and I'm not in it this year, but this fall I will audition for re-entry. What I really want to learn about Britten is his ideas of new harmonic modes. I want to imitate his technique. It's very interesting and the best way to learn is to imitate. Big ideas, but my results are usually second-rate.

About those Valkyrie maidens singing in English, for those who don't know, HB is kidding. I guess the English translation of "Hoyoto oh ah" might be "Yee-haw!"? hehe

Maybe you can borrow it from the library. I wouldn't like it, personally.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

I think you can't go wrong with Sutherland when it comes to Donizetti, Pavarotti is OK I'm just not a fan. He can't hurt it anyway.

I just got the cheap version of "Pictures" at iTunes, Daniel Nazareth and the Slovak Phil. Never heard of 'em before, and it was my first online purchase so I didn't want to waste money. I figured for $6 I couldn't go wrong, and it's true. It has been entertaining light stuff for the bus ride to work.

The Britten, I got the Britten/Pears/Fischer-Diskau/etc. I just got it, in fact, and have only listened twice. I still haven't formed an opinion. I might get another copy someday conducted by someone I admire. But my initial take on it is that I'd love to sing it. The symphonic choir is doing Mozart this year and I'm not in it this year, but this fall I will audition for re-entry. What I really want to learn about Britten is his ideas of new harmonic modes. I want to imitate his technique. It's very interesting and the best way to learn is to imitate. Big ideas, but my results are usually second-rate.

About those Valkyrie maidens singing in English, for those who don't know, HB is kidding. I guess the English translation of "Hoyoto oh ah" might be "Yee-haw!"? hehe

Maybe you can borrow it from the library. I wouldn't like it, personally.

I thought about that...the translation of Hojoto-oh!...but that isn't the only thing they say in that thrilling scene...
Honestly now, which of us doesn't dream of conducting that scene, complete with beautiful Valkyries who can sing their souls out and ride horses...?

I have the Britten/Britten recording too. I really loved it, and he excited the orchestra in the "Libera me" far more than Robert Shaw, another version I have (and love)...the soloists are a lot clearer in speech as well. You know, I never knew WHAT the heck the two Soldiers were saying in the Shaw version...until I got the Britten.
Perhaps the Dies Irae is a little TOO transparent in Brittens version. I really like Shaw's thunderous chorus.

And the Nazareth recording of the Pics may be cheap, but it is one of the top-recommended in the Gramaphone guide

I'm not too big a fan Pavarotti myself...I think his voice is too "silvery"...to "popera"-ish.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

To the ones who know about it...what do you guys think about The ring Cycle in English?

Apperantly Sir Renigald Goodall and his band have recorded the whole cycle, astoundingly in a great english translation.

It's an almost two hours extra longer than the usual 13-14 hours of other cycles. There is criticism about the slow tempos apperantly, but my Gramaphone guide says No biggie, and that there is wondrous detail, and very fine performances, esp. Wotan.

So...I may as well get it, eh?

Well, I'd sure love to hear it!

[Elfhelm]

Question for the hard-core among us:

How many times have you listened to the Ring Cycle all the way through pausing only to eat? And when you do, what do you feel when the forest murmurs start? I don't know why, but they seem to make alpha waves start flowing or something, especially after all that precedes them.

My answer is three. And I'm 50. I have a feeling someone half my age has done it twice as many times.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I'm not too big a fan Pavarotti myself...I think his voice is too "silvery"...to "popera"-ish.

From a technical stand point, the reason for him having that sound is that he constricts his throat a lot--especially on the high notes. There are plenty of other tenors who were much better than Pavarotti, but he lucked out . I'm not saying he's a bad singer, but he's not what he gets hyped up to be.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by Tessar

From a technical stand point, the reason for him having that sound is that he constricts his throat a lot--especially on the high notes. There are plenty of other tenors who were much better than Pavarotti, but he lucked out . I'm not saying he's a bad singer, but he's not what he gets hyped up to be.

Domingo, on the other hand... I love him! He is even more than what he's hyped to be. But I don't know the technical reason why. It's his ability to convey feelings, added with his ability in many different forms of opera, and his voice remaining wonderful well beyond the typical age of retirement that makes me sing his prasies, so to speak.

Care to add anything about his technique, Tessar. I'm not really knowledgeable there. I just try to sing right.

[Tessar]

Heh, well part of it is that he isn't a tenor at all--he's actually a baritone, which is a lower voice, so for him to be able to hit the high notes shows his good technique . It's also why he sounds 'warmer' than Pav. tends to.

[Tessar]

I should probably mention, though, in retrospect...

I don't like Pavarotti generally, but I -do- think he sang Nessun Dorma like no other tenor ever has before--I can't get enough of him singing it. I've heard Caruso doing it, and was pretty unimpressed, but Pavarotti really nailed it, at least in my opinion.

[Karl Ting]

Nice thread!

I enjoy classical music, although I haven't heard much of it. You could call me something of a convert. I began my life as a country fan, moved to pop, and now I'm moving more and more into classical music. I think that has something to do with my training in classical piano and voice.

Tessar, I'm going to have to say that I think Caruso's version of Nessun Dorma was much better. Pavarotti isn't my cup of tea at all.

I'm happy to see some other singers here. What parts do you all sing? I sing Bass I or Tenor II as I'm needed, although I find Tenor II to be a little uncomfortable to sing.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by Karl Ting

I'm happy to see some other singers here. What parts do you all sing? I sing Bass I or Tenor II as I'm needed, although I find Tenor II to be a little uncomfortable to sing.

I think our voices might be fairly similar. In standard choral settings for classical music I am a Bass I, and for solos I am a Baritone.

In barbershop a Baritone is really a harmonizing Tenor II, whle the Tenor II has the melody and the Tenor I is a high harmony. In that case I sing Bass. Sadly, I don't have a nice loud low F, so any songs in Bb will be weak in the Bass on a chord or two.

I've been trying to make sure to float my larynx. Not getting that F has made me start this bad habit of pushing it down, and lately I noticed I was doing that on very high notes, too. It takes concentration and will power not to push down on the larynx these days. And since I turn 50 soon, I should really make sure my technique will not add to the natural deterioration.

If anyone has ever seen "The Defiant Requiem", which gets broadcast on PBS about once a year, I'm in that chorus.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I should probably mention, though, in retrospect...

I don't like Pavarotti generally, but I -do- think he sang Nessun Dorma like no other tenor ever has before--I can't get enough of him singing it. I've heard Caruso doing it, and was pretty unimpressed, but Pavarotti really nailed it, at least in my opinion.

i've heard it...I was the one who wasn't impressed. I've never heard Caruso, though I imagine ALL of the recordings with him are going to have a lot of noise...

I thought Domingo was the best at Nessun Dorma yet.