UT Discussion - Aldarion and Erendis

[Gordis]

Excellent summary, Earniel! And very good, insightful discussion. Sorry I am joining in so late…

1. Who do you think was eventually a better King, Meneldur who looked no further than the borders of Nùmenor but who managed his land and affairs well? Or Aldarion who spent as much time overseas as he did in Númenor but whose help and endeavours were much appreciated by Gil-galad in the fight against the rising Sauron, even though much of his efforts went to naught?
I agree 100% with Keith K. Stagnation is never good for Men.

There were actually two main kinds of Numenorean kings:
A. Quiet, wise, studious ones with zero hubris just by nature. In Elros's line such guys happen occasionally: Vardamir Nolimon, Aldarion's father Tar-Meneldur, maybe also Tar-Minastir. They must be quite nice to have around, and they make decent Kings in time of peace. But progress with them is impossible.
B. Their more warlike, adventurous, proud and power-hungry relatives (Elros himself, Tar-Aldarion, Tar-Ciryatan and Tar-Atanamir, Isildur etc.). I wouldn't call the latter variety flawed: it is just another temperament. And yes, because of it they make far greater Kings!

2. For all Aldarion’s taste for sea-voyages, he did not once look to travel west. Why? Was this the injunction of the Valar at work, then why did he not rebel against it, as he did against any order that barred his path?
It was simply because in Aldarion's time the realm of the Unknown, adventures and opportunities lay to the East, not to the West. When all the coasts of ME had been explored, Gates of Morning found, all the seaways trodden, only then the Mariners turned their (first yearning then greedy) gaze West.
3. The ships of Númenor continued to sail under the assumed protection of the Valar, and Uinen was held in high esteem but do you think the Valar actually influenced any event in the story of Aldarion and Erendis? If so, what?
I don't think the Valar paid Numenoreans any attention before the disquieting reports of the Rebellion started coming in from Elves. But that happened more than a millennium later.
As for Uinen… the Maia naturally favored Numenorean mariners, the Uinendili - especially those who carried a green bought of oiolairë in her honor and she restrained the temper of her husband Ossë. Not a single (!) Numenorean ship sank in all the three thousand years before Sauron became the King's counselor: " But all this was now changed; for the sky itself was darkened, and there were storms of rain and hail in those days, and violent winds; and ever and anon a great ship of the Númenóreans would founder and return not to haven, though such a grief had not till then befallen them since the rising of the Star."- AKALLABÊTH.*
*That's why I don't believe that Erendis may have died in a shipwreck (see question 11).

4. Did Aldarion really love the sea, or did he see it more as something to conquer, a method merely than a reason to do his own thing and not be beholden to anyone?
I believe Aldarion truly had an overwhelming sea-longing and desire to explore the unknown… The second reason (to do his own thing) also played a part, but secondary. He didn't stop his voyages after becoming King, when he could do as he pleased while staying at home.

5. Was the fact that Erendis came from the Line of Bëor (and therefore had a shorter lifespan) an important factor in the rift between her and Aldarion? Do you think they could have overcome this if they had tried?
It played its part as an argument to force Aldarion to marry sooner when, in truth, he wasn't psychologically ready for it. It would have been far better for him to wait another hundred years, sate his sea-longing a bit, and find a better bride.

6. Aldarion increasingly ran into unfavourable currents and bad weather as he continued to journey away from Númenor. His works on the Middle-earth continent continually suffered set-backs, ruin and attacks. Was this a sign of the displeasure of the Valar for disobeying his father? If so they succeeded only in keeping Aldarion longer away from home. But as is later revealed in the story, Aldarion did provide worthwile aid to Gil-galad, even as his own projects continued to fail. May this actually have been the intent all along?
I don't see any divine providence in this at all. Yes, bad weather awaits those who didn't please Osse and Uinen, setting out without oiolairë, but also some storms and setbacks happen now and then to everyone. All-in-all Aldarion's voyages to the uncharted lands went surprisingly smoothly, if we compare them to perils and many casualties of Columbus, Vasco-da-Gama, Magellan etc.
What aid could Aldarion give to Gil-Galad seems quite unclear to me. What indeed did the Elf want? Nobody attacked the Elves, as far as we know. Or did Gil-Galad also have problems with the "wild" Men of ME?

7. Tolkien writes: “For Aldarion was a man long-sighted, and he looked forward to days when the people would need more room and greater wealth; and whether he himself knew this clearly or no, he dreamed of the glory of Númenor and the power of its kings, and he sought for footholds whence they could step to wider dominion.” Would you agree with this assessment of Aldarion’s character?
Spot-on.

8. When Erendis’ parents see that Erendis has sent off the birds, Núneth says a curious thing: “And may the Valar send her wisdom – or guile, at the least!” Why would she want Erendis to have guile? Why would Erendis need to deceive Aldarion upon his return?
This is perhaps the most insightful question of all.

Guile is not such bad thing. "Sauron was ever guileful..-Silm" And look how brilliantly he has dealt with both Elves and Men back in the SA. Guile is necessary for the one who is objectively weaker; it gives enormous advantages over a head-on approach. Fingolfin charged Morgoth head-on and died a horrible death gaining nothing but some moral satisfaction, while Beren and Luthien used a lot of guile and succeeded.
Neither Erendis, nor Aldarion had an ounce of guile, no cunning or subtlety, so their conflict was a head-on collision, utterly unresolvable, unless one of them backs off and submits (which neither of them, of course, was willing to do).
Now, back to Núneth's words. It was clear to her mother that Erendis totally lacked wisdom: she would never accept her situation gracefully, she would never stop fretting and enjoy all the pleasures of being a queen. No, the fool wanted Aldarion as her lap-dog which was simply not happening. But some guile could have helped her a lot! If she at least pretended to surrender, returned home, tried to be nice and loving with Aldarion, bore him sons, THAT could give him some real reasons to stay, could make him desire to stay… If she tried hard enough in this guileful way, these womanly wiles and apparent submission could maybe get her almost what she wanted.

9. It is curious to see that Gil-Galad appears to have a better relationship with Aldarion than Aldarion has with his father. Would this be because Aldarion’s travels fitted well into Gil-Galad’s efforts and there was less friction between their own goals? Or did Aldarion just find it easier to share what was on his mind with one of the Eldar than one of his own people? Unlike Meneldur, Gil-Galad only profited from Aldarion's visits: so why not like him? I think in the FA the Elves grew used to having Edain at their beck and call, so with the relocation of Men to Numenor the Elves probably felt abandoned and were glad to return to the original layout…

10. If Erendis had gone with Ancalimë back to Armenelos when Tar-Meneldur asked her to, would this have had any influence of the rift between her and Aldarion, who would now be king?
No doubt about it. That's exactly why she didn't go. You see, Aldarion still had no Heir according to the Law of the time, so everyone around would be nagging at him to reconcile with his wife and produce at last a Heir. That was Erendis' biggest trump card: a King MUST have a Heir, and Aldarion had none. She hoped that the heirless King would crawl back to her begging for forgiveness, but instead the proud King changed the Law in favor of his daughter. It was the last blow to Erendis and the end of all her hopes. She also lost her daughter this way.

11. What do you think happened when Erendis at last sought out Aldarion again, when the records only mention: “Erendis perished in water in the year 985.” Do you think Aldarion had a hand in it?
I think she committed suicide when she learned of the change of the Law (see above). Why die by drowning? To spite her husband, of course.

Aldarion should have murdered her back in 883 and taken a new wife - that was exactly what she deserved and he was still young enough to get sons. After the change of the Law he had no reasons to kill Erendis - he just forgot about her.