i hate musicals

Magicshrivve · 04-25-2002, 04:36 PM

Musicals are stupid. There should have never been a LOTR musical. I hate musicals. >: (

Agburanar · 04-26-2002, 05:29 AM

That's nice. I'm sure we all sympathise with you. I hated the LoTR movie but they still made it, I'm afraid that the masses want entertainment!

Imladris · 04-28-2002, 11:52 AM

I disagree with both of you on both accounts.

**hama** · 04-30-2002, 01:09 AM

Three very interesting posts/opinions. First, I hate musicals. That is an opinion that has been shared here and elsewhere before. In another thread someone spoke of their distate of musicals as a dramatic form. When I challenged that person about it, they listed a rather long and diverse list of particular musicals that they had seen and had all thoroughly disliked. Some of those listed I think are quite good, some listed I agreed wholeheartedly. I had to respect the fact that they had been exposed to this wide variety of musical works and found it lacking as an art form. Personally if I never see another ballet I will not miss it.

I also feel that LOTR is, in its original form, already a musical. There are literally hundreds of pages of lyrics and I can tell you from experience that it is virtually impossible to write a lyric without some form of melody in one's head. I have argued in the past that I did not write a musical version of LOTR but simply adapted LOTR to the stage. If the source material had not had so many songs already in it I probably would not have gotten the idea or made the effort.

Second, I hated LOTR the movie...the masses want entertainment. Personally I did not hate the movie. I quite enjoyed it the three times I saw it and look forward to TTT and RotK. Of the three I think that FotR is least adaptable to the screen and the least interesting. As for the masses wanting entertainment, I would suggest that no one in musical theater has written for "the masses" since the 1950's. The closest thing that Broadway has come to in spawning a pop tune from a broadway show was Memories from Cats and thta was nearly twenty-five years ago. I share Agburanur's love of musicals, the theater and have been honored by his interest in this project and the set design sketches.

Imladris. I am glad you like musicals and the movie. Care to opine further here?

Galenavar · 07-16-2002, 01:39 PM

I just thought I'd throw in my two or three cents here.

I loved the movie, all 4 times I saw it, and I love musicals, so the idea of a LOTR musical is like a dream come true. Granted, some people just don't like musicals, yet I could never understand why. I can understand not liking certain musicals, but to say that you hate musicals as a whole has never made sense to me. But each to his own I suppose.

Oh, and, personally, if I loved something enough to spend years of my life dedicated to it, I wouldn't care if a few people hated it. Just so long as I got to see my dream come to life, that would be enough for me. I'd probably die a happy woman. Of course, that's just me.

webwizard333 · 07-16-2002, 02:27 PM

I've always liked musicals (theyre just so . . . musical

). I'd defiantely want to see one of Lord of the Rings. I agree with Hama1 that the LotR is already a sort of musical, in fact, in the Silmarrillion there's a great deal of emphasis on music in the begining as well.

Lizra · 07-16-2002, 03:14 PM

I'll confess to not caring for Musicals also (hate is to strong for me!) They always seem so "corny". If ever there was a story that would be good set to music though, it'd be LoTR. I'd see it.

Katt_knome_hobbit · 07-17-2002, 01:35 AM

*Katt slaps Magicshrivve and everyone else here who doesn't like musicals*

I'm sorry. My family does musicals. We are the play family. I was raised by going to see a show every night.

To me, you are like blasphemers.

Khadrane · 07-18-2002, 07:27 PM

I like musicals. I don't love them or anything, but I like them. Truthfully, I've only been to two, so my opinion probably isn't worth much, but I think a LotR musical would be cool.

AragornsonofArathorn · 07-20-2002, 12:09 AM

Personally I don't like musicals either. But that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't have one. The LoTR books are inspiring. They inspire people to branch off of them by making movies, plays, musicals, etc. I say, "More power to you!"

hama1 · 07-21-2002, 12:54 AM

Unfortunately I do not my copy of Tolkien's Letters with me but in one he states that LotR is a starting point which should inspire other to create art, music, etc., based on his work. I hope I have carried out his wishes in my own small way.

hama1 · 07-21-2002, 12:57 AM

Katt...

Your family does musicals? Anyone who goes to see the theatre on a nightly basis is truly blessed. To be exposed to the rich tapestry of theatre is a wonderful gift. I am envious.

Brad

Renille · 07-21-2002, 07:51 PM

Every night, Katt? Wow. I love musicals, too. I just finished my small part in "The Wizard of Oz" a few hours ago. I definitely think LOtR will be successful as a musical. I can't wait until it comes out.

***azalea*** · 07-26-2002, 02:21 PM

I personally love musicals, but people I know have told me they feel it's silly when people in a play suddenly break into song about something. My response is that I wish more people would break into song in real life. The world today needs more spontaneous singing.

I agree that it would be nice for more songs from musicals to get radio play.

galadriel · 07-26-2002, 10:59 PM

There are some really good musicals - My Fair Lady, The Sound of Music, Guys of Dolls, Rocky Horror Picture Show

- real classics.
There are some really bad musicals too. Uh, luckily, I haven't seen any of them, discounting bad children's movies, which don't count.
Of course it's really silly for people to break out into song. But it's a device, and if used correctly, it works. And there are sillier things in entertainment: the laugh tracks during sitcoms, for instance. To most people, they're practically subliminal, but if you start actively listening to them, it's really funny-sounding.
So, don't dismiss musicals on the fact that they're... musical. They can be really good in spite (or even because!) of this.

hama1 · 07-27-2002, 01:13 AM

Azalea,

I love your suggestion that the world today could use more singing...

Galadriel, yes if used correctly it does work. A bad musical is poorly constructed and you can almost hear the writer and director saying to each other during a workshop..."Okay we need a song here." Now sometimes it works by accident. You mention My Fair Lady as an example of a good musical...and I certainly agree. However, it might interest you to know that one of the most famous songs from that or any other show, One The Street Where You Live, was written as a scrim song...During tryouts in Chicago, the director realized that there wasn't enough time to change sets between scenes so he went to (Rodgers and Hammerstein) and told them he needed them to write a song that Freddie could sing out in front of the scrimwhile the set was being changed behind it. They wrote it overnight and it was rehearsed and put into the show the next day.

When songs in a musical work it is because it is crafted well enough that the emotion and/or intensity of a scene builds to a point where the spoken word simply cannot convey it properly. In my humble opinion, Sam's I AM YOUR FRIEND, Eowyn's WITH HIS WORDS and Faramir and Eowyn's duet, BEFORE TODAY are examples of that. I would also hope that Aragorn's ONE MORE TOMORROW is an example of that.

Perhaps I lack imagination but I cannot fathom the emotions of those moments being able to be conveyed by the spoken word alone.

***azalea*** · 07-27-2002, 09:24 PM

I agree with that.

That's funny about On The Street Where YOu Live! I didn't know that! It's funny because when my family and I were watching it once we all kind of broke away from the movie and I said "When Freddy sings it's time for everyone to go use the bathroom." (I was a kid at the time, so I guess saying that is excusable).

Katt_knome_hobbit · 07-31-2002, 03:58 AM

Music always conveys the meaning more than just speaking it does. Hold on, I'm confuzzled.

galadriel · 07-31-2002, 10:29 PM

Poor Freddie. He was already the dork of the movie, and they didn't even give him a real song?

I guess it kinda suits him, though.

janus13 · 08-07-2002, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hama

As for the masses wanting entertainment, I would suggest that no one in musical theater has written for "the masses" since the 1950's. The closest thing that Broadway has come to in spawning a pop tune from a broadway show was Memories from Cats and thta was nearly twenty-five years ago.

True, but pop has certainly spawned a number of musicals lately. I include Moulin Rouge (a movie, true, but identified in many people's minds as a musical), that one with the ABBA songs that I think flopped (anyone remember the title?) and The Lion King and Disney's other Broadway efforts. There was even that version of Love's Labours Lost with the Cole Porter songs added in..... well, I liked it, but MAN those songs were a stretch. What I'm saying is, a lot of today's musicals are using recycled "pop" songs in leiu of their own material. This is not the same as putting JRRT's lyrics in a LOTR musical, because those lyrics were meant to make people put their own vision to them and create any number of songs. Kudos to you for making your own music!!

Ok. I'm done.

04-25-2002, 04:36 PM	#1
Magicshrivve Hobbit Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 38	i hate musicals Musicals are stupid. There should have never been a LOTR musical. I hate musicals. >: (

04-26-2002, 05:29 AM	#2
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	That's nice. I'm sure we all sympathise with you. I hated the LoTR movie but they still made it, I'm afraid that the masses want entertainment! __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

04-28-2002, 11:52 AM	#3
Imladris Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 146	I disagree with both of you on both accounts. __________________ "A truth that's told with bad intent beats all the lies you can invent."

04-30-2002, 01:09 AM	#4
hama Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 181	Three very interesting posts/opinions. First, I hate musicals. That is an opinion that has been shared here and elsewhere before. In another thread someone spoke of their distate of musicals as a dramatic form. When I challenged that person about it, they listed a rather long and diverse list of particular musicals that they had seen and had all thoroughly disliked. Some of those listed I think are quite good, some listed I agreed wholeheartedly. I had to respect the fact that they had been exposed to this wide variety of musical works and found it lacking as an art form. Personally if I never see another ballet I will not miss it. I also feel that LOTR is, in its original form, already a musical. There are literally hundreds of pages of lyrics and I can tell you from experience that it is virtually impossible to write a lyric without some form of melody in one's head. I have argued in the past that I did not write a musical version of LOTR but simply adapted LOTR to the stage. If the source material had not had so many songs already in it I probably would not have gotten the idea or made the effort. Second, I hated LOTR the movie...the masses want entertainment. Personally I did not hate the movie. I quite enjoyed it the three times I saw it and look forward to TTT and RotK. Of the three I think that FotR is least adaptable to the screen and the least interesting. As for the masses wanting entertainment, I would suggest that no one in musical theater has written for "the masses" since the 1950's. The closest thing that Broadway has come to in spawning a pop tune from a broadway show was Memories from Cats and thta was nearly twenty-five years ago. I share Agburanur's love of musicals, the theater and have been honored by his interest in this project and the set design sketches. Imladris. I am glad you like musicals and the movie. Care to opine further here? __________________ The guard stepped back and looked with amazement on Aragorn. `It seems that you are come on the wings of song out of the forgotten days,' he said. `It shall be, lord, as you command.'

07-16-2002, 01:39 PM	#5
Galenavar Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI Posts: 129	I just thought I'd throw in my two or three cents here. I loved the movie, all 4 times I saw it, and I love musicals, so the idea of a LOTR musical is like a dream come true. Granted, some people just don't like musicals, yet I could never understand why. I can understand not liking certain musicals, but to say that you hate musicals as a whole has never made sense to me. But each to his own I suppose. Oh, and, personally, if I loved something enough to spend years of my life dedicated to it, I wouldn't care if a few people hated it. Just so long as I got to see my dream come to life, that would be enough for me. I'd probably die a happy woman. Of course, that's just me. __________________ Galenavar Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo If there's no magic, there's no meaning.

07-16-2002, 02:27 PM	#6
webwizard333 Elf Lord Join Date: May 2001 Location: myob Posts: 587	I've always liked musicals (theyre just so . . . musical ). I'd defiantely want to see one of Lord of the Rings. I agree with Hama1 that the LotR is already a sort of musical, in fact, in the Silmarrillion there's a great deal of emphasis on music in the begining as well. __________________ Boo!

07-16-2002, 03:14 PM	#7
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I'll confess to not caring for Musicals also (hate is to strong for me!) They always seem so "corny". If ever there was a story that would be good set to music though, it'd be LoTR. I'd see it.

07-17-2002, 01:35 AM	#8
Katt_knome_hobbit Dead Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: on the floor, under the table, just to your left, your other left Posts: 1,486	Katt slaps Magicshrivve and everyone else here who doesn't like musicals I'm sorry. My family does musicals. We are the play family. I was raised by going to see a show every night. To me, you are like blasphemers. __________________ How to Survive the Sillmarillion I thought that Alcohol was just for those with nothing else to do. I thought that drinking just to get drunk was a waste of precious booze. But now I know that there's a time and there's a place where I can choose To walk the fine line between self control and self abuse. "Lacerations make complications, but welts go away in a day."

07-18-2002, 07:27 PM	#9
Khadrane Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle Earth (I wish) Posts: 670	I like musicals. I don't love them or anything, but I like them. Truthfully, I've only been to two, so my opinion probably isn't worth much, but I think a LotR musical would be cool. __________________ Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE

07-20-2002, 12:09 AM	#10
AragornsonofArathorn Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cold Hell... I mean Minnesota Posts: 15	Personally I don't like musicals either. But that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't have one. The LoTR books are inspiring. They inspire people to branch off of them by making movies, plays, musicals, etc. I say, "More power to you!"

07-21-2002, 12:54 AM	#11
hama1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NY and MA Posts: 133	Unfortunately I do not my copy of Tolkien's Letters with me but in one he states that LotR is a starting point which should inspire other to create art, music, etc., based on his work. I hope I have carried out his wishes in my own small way.

07-21-2002, 12:57 AM	#12
hama1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NY and MA Posts: 133	Katt... Your family does musicals? Anyone who goes to see the theatre on a nightly basis is truly blessed. To be exposed to the rich tapestry of theatre is a wonderful gift. I am envious. Brad

07-21-2002, 07:51 PM	#13
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	Every night, Katt? Wow. I love musicals, too. I just finished my small part in "The Wizard of Oz" a few hours ago. I definitely think LOtR will be successful as a musical. I can't wait until it comes out. __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

07-26-2002, 02:21 PM	#14
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I personally love musicals, but people I know have told me they feel it's silly when people in a play suddenly break into song about something. My response is that I wish more people would break into song in real life. The world today needs more spontaneous singing. I agree that it would be nice for more songs from musicals to get radio play.

07-26-2002, 10:59 PM	#15
galadriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a castle made of clouds Posts: 459	There are some really good musicals - My Fair Lady, The Sound of Music, Guys of Dolls, Rocky Horror Picture Show - real classics. There are some really bad musicals too. Uh, luckily, I haven't seen any of them, discounting bad children's movies, which don't count. Of course it's really silly for people to break out into song. But it's a device, and if used correctly, it works. And there are sillier things in entertainment: the laugh tracks during sitcoms, for instance. To most people, they're practically subliminal, but if you start actively listening to them, it's really funny-sounding. So, don't dismiss musicals on the fact that they're... musical. They can be really good in spite (or even because!) of this. __________________ Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel

07-27-2002, 01:13 AM	#16
hama1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NY and MA Posts: 133	breaking into song...what a lovely thought! Azalea, I love your suggestion that the world today could use more singing... Galadriel, yes if used correctly it does work. A bad musical is poorly constructed and you can almost hear the writer and director saying to each other during a workshop..."Okay we need a song here." Now sometimes it works by accident. You mention My Fair Lady as an example of a good musical...and I certainly agree. However, it might interest you to know that one of the most famous songs from that or any other show, One The Street Where You Live, was written as a scrim song...During tryouts in Chicago, the director realized that there wasn't enough time to change sets between scenes so he went to (Rodgers and Hammerstein) and told them he needed them to write a song that Freddie could sing out in front of the scrimwhile the set was being changed behind it. They wrote it overnight and it was rehearsed and put into the show the next day. When songs in a musical work it is because it is crafted well enough that the emotion and/or intensity of a scene builds to a point where the spoken word simply cannot convey it properly. In my humble opinion, Sam's I AM YOUR FRIEND, Eowyn's WITH HIS WORDS and Faramir and Eowyn's duet, BEFORE TODAY are examples of that. I would also hope that Aragorn's ONE MORE TOMORROW is an example of that. Perhaps I lack imagination but I cannot fathom the emotions of those moments being able to be conveyed by the spoken word alone.

07-27-2002, 09:24 PM	#17
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I agree with that. That's funny about On The Street Where YOu Live! I didn't know that! It's funny because when my family and I were watching it once we all kind of broke away from the movie and I said "When Freddy sings it's time for everyone to go use the bathroom." (I was a kid at the time, so I guess saying that is excusable).

07-31-2002, 03:58 AM	#18
Katt_knome_hobbit Dead Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: on the floor, under the table, just to your left, your other left Posts: 1,486	Music always conveys the meaning more than just speaking it does. Hold on, I'm confuzzled. __________________ How to Survive the Sillmarillion I thought that Alcohol was just for those with nothing else to do. I thought that drinking just to get drunk was a waste of precious booze. But now I know that there's a time and there's a place where I can choose To walk the fine line between self control and self abuse. "Lacerations make complications, but welts go away in a day."

07-31-2002, 10:29 PM	#19
galadriel Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a castle made of clouds Posts: 459	Poor Freddie. He was already the dork of the movie, and they didn't even give him a real song? I guess it kinda suits him, though. __________________ Human kind cannot bear very much reality. dreamflower - for all things Lady Galadriel

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