Visitors Come to Court

[Mari]

He he, hope to see Glorfindel back sometimes! *very subtle hint*

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Mari

He he, hope to see Glorfindel back sometimes! *very subtle hint*

But do you like the "Visitors" depiction of Glorfindel, or the LOTR depiction?

Actually - when I first conceived this story, I had read that Glorfindel may have returned to Middle-Earth in the Third Age, maybe arriving with Gandalf. Later - I read further that he had more likely come in the Second Age. But I held onto the "distance" I had decided to establish between him and the Human characters in the story.

Although he's VERY friendly toward Aragorn in LOTR - he could either have made an exception with Aragorn, he could have changed somewhat over the intervening 2000 years - or he could have been drawn closer and closer to the line of Elendil, and held them in high regard (and maybe it started with Celepharn facing down Helkaruth).

Of course... YOU could write a Glorfindel story!

[Mari]

I feel ashamed, but I must admit that I don't remember a Glorfindel from the LOTR... so it was your version I liked. He seemed to me mysterious, with a lot of potential. Not sure what potential that would be though. A bit aloof, but not arrogant or "I couldn't care less".
For some reason my focus kept returning to him as it were, and not only to the main characters. Not sure how to explain it. :S

Anyway, I've never finished a story in my life, so I don't see myself writing a good story. Plus, most stories I write are children stories. Ranging from 8 to 12 year olds. And I'm not original. Therefore it would not be a good idea for me to write about him

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Mari

I feel ashamed, but I must admit that I don't remember a Glorfindel from the LOTR...

He has a pretty small role - and in the movie it's expanded and given to Arwen. He meets Aragorn and the hobbits on their way to Rivendell and helps them get there. He's also at the Council of Elrond, but it's tough to keep track of which Elf is speaking between him, Erestor and Galdor. Or to even keep straight who those three are, especially your first few times through.

[Valandil]

I can hardly believe it, but I accidentally omitted something else I wanted to say in the story. I have added it in its proper place - near the end of Chapter 6 - and have left it bolded and italicized for now, so you who have already read can readily identify it.

I think I will try to write an "Author's Notes" for this little story of mine.

Or would that totally spoil it?

[Valandil]

OK - I just removed the bold & italicization from the new quote.

I've also added an "Author's Notes" section on the end of the Chapter 7 post, if anyone would like to check it out.

[Rosie Gamgee]

YAY!!!! You finished it! Very nice, Val--I only wish it was longer! *standing ovation* Great story, wonderful bringing out of the characters! I think the greatest achievement is your portrayal of Gandalf, which is, in my humble opinion, spot-on! Well done, my friend!

[Earniel]

Very extensive author notes, Val. On one hand I don't think they're really necessary to appreciate the story, on the other I always find it interesting to find out what and why the author inserted elements into a story. (I usually keep playing little tricks or puns in the choice of my characters' names but nobody ever seems to notice. Maybe I should consider author notes too. )

[Valandil]

Thank you both.

Yes - I was even unsure whether I should do the Author's Notes. I don't want to spoil it for those who DID notice the things I mentioned, or who might have realized them later. But... I decided it would help spell things out for those who are not so fully acquainted with all things Tolkien, or with the particulars about the northern Dunedain.

Besides - I have a friend of the family who has just read my story... so someone in RL has read it! And... I'm planning to give a copy to a friend at a Tolkien Meetup group this coming Monday. It seemed like the notes might be especially helpful in these cases.

But hey... JRRT gave lots of commentary.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Valandil

The pilgrim had hardly seemed to pay attention to the words between Celepharn and Elrohir, for he was gazing all about, as if trying to remember something. He had muttered only half-aloud, “Well now, something seems familiar about this place… as if something important will happen here. Only… where are the… people?”

He seems to vaguely remember something that will happen in the future - I like that
I guessed from the distance to Bree that we might be reasonably close to Hobbiton, and you confirmed it in your Author's Notes. Nice touch!

“Why, it was not by my hand for that creature to perish. You heard what Glorfindel said, did you not? I thought perhaps for a moment it might be by yours. And you nearly did kill it too, you know.”

I think this is one thing I would have liked to see better wrapped up. Some allusion to what may come - it ought to perish in some story, you know, whether you're incorporating it with some of Tolkien's creation or hinting at some story of your own (perhaps future) writing.

“The fading sunlight showed that the mounted party out of Bree is now only hours away, and still approaching. A leader with an escort of twenty.”

“Most likely that would be the Thane of Stonebows,” offered Wand-Elf, who was suddenly standing at Celepharn’s shoulder. Now where had he come from?

But the pilgrim continued, “He seemed most eager to renew relations with Arthedain.” And then he sipped from his drink and coughed a bit before adding with a twinkle and a smile, “Or at least I thought he might willingly do so – with only a little prompting.”

Here's a thought that might become a last chapter in the story, rounding it off and start the joining together of some of the Dunedain.

The story as it now stands wraps up most of its loose threads before the end, but still stops abruptly - suddenly everything is over and done with and there's no rounding it off. And there are a couple of items that could be expanded, as suggested.

Chapter 3:
1. [...] The theory continues that in Arnor, the three princes (ostensibly descended from the captains of Elendil’s ships – Elendil having reached the north with four ships and presumably in direct command of one, leaving three other ship captains to be major nobles subject to him.

The three princes - what? I cannot find a verb that belongs to them. It doesn't help that the parenthesis isn't closed ...

Chapter 4:
1. Annuminas – now abandoned: We do not know for certain whether Annuminas became abandoned right after the Division of Arnor in 861, or if it continued as an inhabited city right up to the fall of Arthedain in 1974. We do know, however, that Fornost became the ruling city of Arthedain, right from the time of Amlaith, and that Annuminas would be well within Arthedain’s borders. Again, the description of it is entirely the author’s own. JRRT gives us nothing on it, other than that it was on the southern shore of Lake Evendim – or Emyn Uial.

I've been in an RPG where we made the abandonment of Annuminas to have started under Amlaith's grandfather, having Amlaith's father favoring Fornost and having most of the people following him there. And we had Amlaith's younger brothers doing evil plottings ...

2. Mist on the Lake / Cold Drake: [...] Appendix A mentions a cold drake at a later point in the Third Age: “At last Dain I, together with Fror his second son, was slain at the doors of his hall by a great cold-drake.” Appendix B dates this as 2589 – almost 1600 years after this story.

Chapter 5:5. Glorfindel has a knack for prophecy. The author hopes to see this one fulfilled in a later story – so that vengeance can be taken on the cold drake that slays Dain I much later.

As I mentioned above, I would like more of this, and hope to see that later story as well. I would very much like the young Prince to meet the dragon again later and slay him, but if you have already made other plans for his demise, do stick to those. Are you saying that Helkaruth is the dragon that slew Dain?

Originally Posted by Valandil

[...] can we just say that Gandalf tells Aragorn about it after he becomes King, so excavating the pile (hill? it's been 2000 years) that used to be the tower becomes a priority at the re-founding of Annuminas? I suppose whatever was found that was still in reasonable condition would have added to the knowledge of what had once been... both in Numenor and in Arnor.

I think you wrapped up that well enough by Gandalf promising to tell the Prince's heir about it when they could do something. I don't need a story about that - they will excavate it and put what they can into the Library of Annuminas (or perhaps some of it even to Minas Tirith, or at least make copies for that library). Perhaps Gandalf can give it some power of preservation?

I enjoyed the story. Do write some of the 89 others as well - we crave good stories

[Earniel]

I, eh, retract my previous statement that the story was unfinished. For some reason I was completely convinced the story ended after Celepharn being nursed back to health and that the boar remained at large. Now that I've re-read I see I'm clearly mistaken. How could have forgotten all that?

[Varnafindë]

I retain my feeling of abruptness - but I see that you were talking about something that really was unfinished. A very different feeling.

Perhaps it's just that I was hoping for more?

[Valandil]

Varnafinde - thank you very much. Both for taking the time to read it and for the comments. I admit that the story needs some clean-up edits here and there. I recently re-read it, after having left it alone for a long time. I was surprised at a few typos - as well as some stylistic things I would change now. I don't think I read carefully over the notes - so I didn't notice that I left a sentence without a verb and with an unclosed parentheses. I probably did a sloppy edit to change a previous sentence and wasn't careful enough with it. So I'll need to give that a look.

Some of the wrap-ups:
* Thane of Stonebows approaching: just indicates that Wand-Elf is having some early successes in trying to unite the estranged daughter kingdoms of Arnor. Of course, there are surely setbacks to follow, because they still have a rocky road for the next few hundred years. Also - I don't post this here at Entmoot, but I have written a history of the northern kings in an outline form - and indicate there that Celepharn marries a daughter of the Thane of Stonebows. We shouldn't look for the wedding anytime soon though - because Celepharn likely won't marry for another 50 or 55 years or so. His heir is born 58 years after this story is set. Yet - in another sense, this is just showing that things go on. The main part of this story is over, and life continues and changes. It also demonstrates a changed heart in King Beleg, who has perhaps 'warmed up' to the idea of reconciliations with the presence of Wand-Elf.
* Helkaruth is indeed intended to be the cold drake who will eventually slay Dain. He may not have liked Glorfindel's words, but he took them to heart and stayed out of Eriador. But many years later, even that won't matter. Trust me, that is a story I want to tell, but I don't want to give it away in advance. Maybe I'll try to start it soon. Is that a good 'next'?

I'm glad you liked that about Wand-Elf vaguely remember something about the future. That's how I imagine it might have been for him - having sung in the choir before time began about all these things that would come to pass. He might have re-sung snatches of the song for all the long years in Aman. Now that he has been confined permanently (more or less) to that human form, and is newly arrived in Middle Earth, he may - especially at first - struggle to piece things together and to recall them clearly. Maybe he remembers it imperfectly - at least at first. Or maybe it's that he is finally seeing before him what he has sung that was to be, and is uncertain (this being a new experience to some extent) whether he recognizes it.

Did you notice he even seems baffled by the mention of 'snow'? Or maybe not baffled, but he might have to suddenly think about snow in new terms... in ways in which someone cloaked in mortality would think of snow, not as he would have previously thought of and remembered snow.

Glad you enjoyed it.

[Valandil]

OK - I just corrected my note about the Princes.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Valandil

OK - I just corrected my note about the Princes.

Thank you!
And that concept of Princes makes sense - Aragorn appoints Faramir to be Prince of Ithilien (as a principality under Gondor), and I guess that the Prince of Dol Amroth rules Dol Amroth as another prinicipality under Gondor.

(It would be the same thing with Charles being Prince of Wales, with the difference that he's not expected to rule it
His investment as the Prince of Wales took place when he had come of age, he had only been a Prince up till that time.)

Originally Posted by Valandil

* Thane of Stonebows approaching: just indicates that Wand-Elf is having some early successes in trying to unite the estranged daughter kingdoms of Arnor. Of course, there are surely setbacks to follow, because they still have a rocky road for the next few hundred years.

I guessed that this was why they were coming, and that it wasn't a missing subplot. It's probably best just to leave it like it is - even what I thought of, wasn't meant to be a subplot. You cannot start a subplot in the middle of the last paragraph. Or you shouldn't

Also - I don't post this here at Entmoot, but I have written a history of the northern kings in an outline form - and indicate there that Celepharn marries a daughter of the Thane of Stonebows. [...] It also demonstrates a changed heart in King Beleg, who has perhaps 'warmed up' to the idea of reconciliations with the presence of Wand-Elf.

A daughter? Sweet!
I'm afraid I didn't notice that about King Beleg, though - or perhaps I just didn't notice the lack of his usual animosity.

* Helkaruth is indeed intended to be the cold drake who will eventually slay Dain. He may not have liked Glorfindel's words, but he took them to heart and stayed out of Eriador. But many years later, even that won't matter. Trust me, that is a story I want to tell, but I don't want to give it away in advance. Maybe I'll try to start it soon. Is that a good 'next'?

Then Celepharn cannot slay him
Yes, that's a good story and a good 'next'. I hope that both Celepharn's Annuminas and Dain are revenged eventually. I expect you would tell the story of Dain first, and then hopefully about the revenge afterwards ...

I'm glad you liked that about Wand-Elf vaguely remember something about the future. That's how I imagine it might have been for him - having sung in the choir before time began about all these things that would come to pass. [...] Maybe he remembers it imperfectly - at least at first. Or maybe it's that he is finally seeing before him what he has sung that was to be, and is uncertain (this being a new experience to some extent) whether he recognizes it.

I wasn't quite sure what way you were taking it, but I guessed it had something to do with his coming from the West.
I like this solution

I guess that only the Valar were creating parts of the Music, the Maiar would just be singing along, so there's all the more reason for him to be uncertain about whether he has interpreted it correctly, and whether he recognizes it.

Did you notice he even seems baffled by the mention of 'snow'? Or maybe not baffled, but he might have to suddenly think about snow in new terms... in ways in which someone cloaked in mortality would think of snow, not as he would have previously thought of and remembered snow.

I noticed. Seeing snow in the distance, or even outside your window, is very different from having to go out and walk in it ...

But it's possibly because of his memory as well. He's a little bit the same at first when he meets Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in Fangorn.

'Gandalf,' the old man repeated, as if recalling from old memory a long disused word. 'Yes, that was the name. I was Gandalf.'

Even then, it takes him a little while to get back to who he has been. You might have thought that he was through with that after having been with Galadriel for a few days first, but then she would call him Mithrandir, not Gandalf ...

[Valandil]

Don't get too excited, because I can be really... REALLY... slow!

But I've spent some time the past couple days outlining, setting up a timeline and making tentative chapter assignments for that next story.

Like I say, it may be awhile before there's much more to tell than that.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

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I enjoyed the story. Do write some of the 89 others as well - we crave good stories

Say Varnafinde - have you read any of my other stories? "Letters of Firiel" was my very first attempt at fanfic - it's rather long. "Tales of Nolduryon" has two short stories. The first was rather well-received, the second rather ill-received. At some point I'll probably pull that second, and then just re-write the whole story differently.

Links are in my sig. If you like those, I have just a little more posted at other sites but that I haven't cluttered Entmoot with - including an outline-type of document that chronicles all the Kings of the Northern Dunedain in the 3rd Age.