Homeschooling is banned in California

[Lief Erikson]

An Appelate Court declared homeschooling illegal throughout California. The decision is being strongly contested. We'll just have to see what the legislative battle results in.

I hope that some of you will sign this petition to keep homeschooling legal. I was homeschooled in California, and I have two brothers here currently being homeschooled.

Please pray for the homeschoolers, if you pray, and either way, sign the petition opposing this law that is on the front page of this site.

[Nurvingiel]

You'd think that a state that's pondering cutting $400 million from its education budget would actively encourage homeschooling. They could really use an increase in parents taking the direct costs of educating their children upon themselves.

[Earniel]

From what I've read, homeschooling IS still legal, but the parents teaching must have a teacher's certificate of some sort. I'm wondering, is that such a bad thing really? I would want parents teaching the kids themselves to know at least how to do it. Or is there something else that I'm missing?

[tolkienfan]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

From what I've read, homeschooling IS still legal, but the parents teaching must have a teacher's certificate of some sort. I'm wondering, is that such a bad thing really? I would want parents teaching the kids themselves to know at least how to do it. Or is there something else that I'm missing?

It can take a few years of school to get one (I'm not sure what kind is required by CA), even if you are already highly educated. I was being homeschooled in CA last year, and I have a lot of homeschooling friends there.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by tolkienfan

It can take a few years of school to get one (I'm not sure what kind is required by CA), even if you are already highly educated.

Well, that something else, I suppose. I take it there is no grace period implemented for the parents to get this certificate, then?

[Lief Erikson]

It's hard to get a certificate, Earniel. It's a big expense in both time and money. It also is unnecessary. Statistics show that homeschoolers tend to get a better education than people in public school, in the US. Not always, but generally. Almost all homeschooling families lack the teaching certificate, though.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

You'd think that a state that's pondering cutting $400 million from its education budget would actively encourage homeschooling. They could really use an increase in parents taking the direct costs of educating their children upon themselves.

But... that would be reasonable. Can't have that.

I'll reply to other posts later, etc.
In case any of you don't know, I'm homeschooled, so this ruling personally affected me... and creeped me out. Yes, the ruling suggested that homeschooling shouldn't be allowed, it's not law, blah, blah, blah. But just the fact that the ruling was made is disturbing.

Sis: Being a homeschool organization, why shouldn't HSLDA be all over this?
Why can't it be Christian?
And please support your claim that HSLDA is exclusively for Christians. I'd like to know your side.


Quote from About HSLDA

4. Is HSLDA a Christian organization?

Yes; however, HSLDA’s mission is to protect the freedom of all homeschoolers. Although our officers and directors are Christians, HSLDA membership is not limited to religiously based homeschoolers. We respect parents' rights to make the appropriate choices for the upbringing of their children. We have no agenda to make all public and home-based classrooms religious or conservative. Our primary objective is to preserve the fundamental right of parents to choose home education, free of over-zealous government officials and intrusive laws. We do put on a national conference annually and invite the board members of state organizations with whom we have worked for many years. Most, if not all, of those organizations have Christian leaders, but many serve all homeschoolers regardless of religious affiliation, as we do.

10. Does HSLDA promote exclusively Christian homeschool support organizations?

We do not. Over 500 support groups participate in our group discount program. Religion is not a criterion for participation. We work in conjunction with secular and religious groups alike to promote and protect home education freedoms.

http://www.hslda.org/about/default.asp
Lief already posted the first one, but it seems to need to be reposted.

[The Gaffer]

Interesting debate. Some observations:

1) When comparing home-schooled performance stats with public-schooled, you are not comparing like with like. The sample who are home-schooled benefit from one-to-one tuition and a highly motivated, education-oriented home environment: i.e. both the sample and the methods are different in important ways that would skew the results. All the evidence shows that your home environment is a very strong predictor of educational performance in the state school sector.
2) Having a PhD in Chemistry doesn't qualify you to teach chemistry, let alone History, or anything else. Not to say you CAN'T teach it, just to say that I know lots of PhDs who are pants teachers.
3) Did I see a move to have the judge's ruling deleted or struck from the record? Now, we don't have a constitution here, but one thing that does get people in a lather is when people try to edit judges' interpretations of the law. In fact, no-one would even dare try. They might moan and complain about it, and they might change the law because of it, but it wouldn't even be contemplated to change the record. That's Ministry of Truth stuff (unless I've read it wrong), and a suprisingly illiberal move from supposed defenders of liberty.
4) It strikes me that there might be a minority of "bad apples" who just don't send their kids to school because they can't be arsed, or who claim "homeschooling" but do it spectacularly badly. Do we not have a social contract in which we pay taxes so that the state can protect our rights? That would, presumably, include some means of telling when a child's prospects are being ruined by delinquent parents. In which case, there needs to be some form of regulation or inspection, and there has to be some legal recourse for the state when a child is detected as being neglected.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Interesting debate. Some observations:

1) When comparing home-schooled performance stats with public-schooled, you are not comparing like with like. The sample who are home-schooled benefit from one-to-one tuition and a highly motivated, education-oriented home environment

Hee hee .

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

: i.e. both the sample and the methods are different in important ways that would skew the results. All the evidence shows that your home environment is a very strong predictor of educational performance in the state school sector.

Yup!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

2) Having a PhD in Chemistry doesn't qualify you to teach chemistry, let alone History, or anything else. Not to say you CAN'T teach it, just to say that I know lots of PhDs who are pants teachers.

Yes, but as you point out . . . homeschoolers tend to be highly successful. Perhaps because the homeschool environment, as you seem to suggest by saying that the sample and methods are skewed here, tends to be better.

I just can't resist gloating here . I feel very, very proud of the homeschool movement. And it feels good to hear you compliment it .

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

3) Did I see a move to have the judge's ruling deleted or struck from the record? Now, we don't have a constitution here, but one thing that does get people in a lather is when people try to edit judges' interpretations of the law. In fact, no-one would even dare try. They might moan and complain about it, and they might change the law because of it, but it wouldn't even be contemplated to change the record. That's Ministry of Truth stuff (unless I've read it wrong), and a suprisingly illiberal move from supposed defenders of liberty.

We aren't changing history. History has happened and the original judge's interpretation will be remembered. However, that interpretation needs to be depublished because other courts can base decisions partly on it when making further choices regarding the future of homeschooling. It's a legal issue. Depublishing it will eliminate their legal ability to do this.

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

4) It strikes me that there might be a minority of "bad apples" who just don't send their kids to school because they can't be arsed, or who claim "homeschooling" but do it spectacularly badly. Do we not have a social contract in which we pay taxes so that the state can protect our rights? That would, presumably, include some means of telling when a child's prospects are being ruined by delinquent parents. In which case, there needs to be some form of regulation or inspection, and there has to be some legal recourse for the state when a child is detected as being neglected.

I think that if they are going to start something like that, they should begin it with the public schools. Students there are generally faring worse than they are in homeschools, in spite of regulations. After the public schools have had a clear improvement in their education systems, there would be more justification for beginning to focus on the significantly smaller number of problems that exist in the homeschooling community. Before laying new regulations on the segment of society that is really doing well, I think it's best to prove that regulations make significant improvements in the part of it that's doing worse.

[brownjenkins]

Any averages of homeschooling vs. public schooling are too skewed by self-selection to be representative of anything.

The most important aspect of education is parents who care about their child's education.

By definition, 95% of the homeschooled have parents that care about their child's education.

By comparison, public schools reflect the entire population: some children have parents who care a lot about their child's education; some who are somewhat concerned, but not that involved; some who hardly care at all.

Thus, the average of the first group is always going to be higher, not because homeschooling is better, but because the entire populace is only made up of a selective part of the total population. If they didn't do substantially better, I'd be real worried.

For those that disparage public school, remember that there are millions of children that graduate from public schools every year and go on to extremely successful careers. My guess is that these children had parents who cared.

My own four children go to public school. My wife could homeschool them (she's a certified teacher), but she prefers for them to have the other experiences public school brings. And we're still around each day after school to fill in the blanks and help them along when needed. Not to mention all the education they received from us in the first five years of their lives.

The question: How do we help kids who's parents don't care (or aren't particularly educated themselves)?

Public school is really the only option, and working to make it better is better for everyone. Homeschooling is fine, as long as those who want to do it do it well, but it does not work for every child.

[hectorberlioz]

My mom didn't have a certificate. She went to Berkeley for five years.

Seriously, if the public school system can't educate people enough so that they can educate their own kids....really.

This is a good place to post this again: http://www.familyhack.com/2007/11/09/homeschooler-rant/

[Mari]

How come the public schools aren't good enough then?
Not meant as criticizing people who homeschool, but I just don't understand the whole system.

[Tessar]

As a future wanna-be teacher myself, and a former home schooler, I have some very personal feelings rooted in this matter.

I don't think home schooling should be illegal, but at the same time I do think that home schoolers should have to take some form of standardized testing. I don't think that's such a horrible thing since most of them pass the things -anyways- with flying colors... but I think it would help cut down on some of the people who just take the kids out of school to 'home school' because it's more convenient... and the kids don't really learn anything.

On the other hand, I think a lot of our standardized testing is pretty messed up.



I honestly don't think home schooling should be the target of ANYTHING right now, I think we need to reform the school system itself. But that's a whole 'nutha topic .

[hectorberlioz]

Sis, they put a serious damper on homeschooling in CA. That's bad enough.

If most homeschoolers pass standardized tests, there should be no problem. To get into college you have to pass the SAT or ACT, and I can assure you that homeschoolers can pass either.

I think what annoys me is the fact that a few incompetent homeschoolers mess things up for all the competent ones. But it's a double-standard, because are there plenty more public-shoolers that don't learn anything! But they get away with it because it's a public school. Not fair at all.

The public school systems knows not where it goes. It's a huge, slimy slug.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Sis, they put a serious damper on homeschooling in CA. That's bad enough.

If most homeschoolers pass standardized tests, there should be no problem. To get into college you have to pass the SAT or ACT, and I can assure you that homeschoolers can pass either.

I think what annoys me is the fact that a few incompetent homeschoolers mess things up for all the competent ones. But it's a double-standard, because are there plenty more public-shoolers that don't learn anything! But they get away with it because it's a public school. Not fair at all.

The public school systems knows not where it goes. It's a huge, slimy slug.

They haven't put a damper on anything. I know, personally, dozens of CA homeschoolers, and they go on as usual.

Right now, no one compels homeschoolers, or anyone else, to take the SAT or ACT. And that's swell. Delaware just lost a week of instructional time taking state mandated testing, which homeschoolers, like other private schoolers, can ignore. I wouldn't thank HSLDA, or Tessar, or anyone else for making homeschoolers sit through THAT nonsense, which teachers in the school system universally loathe.

You can't apply standardized testing without standardized curriculum. I absolutely guarantee that most people here couldn't pass a test I would give my acting students. You couldn't, because you haven't been taught the material. If I'm teaching a vocational school for future actors, they can pass the test. Why wouldn't THAT be on the 'standardized test?' Even in this state, we have students who will be actors, musicians, brick-layers and physicists. Do you want a test that evaluates everyone's proficiency in all those areas?

The problem in this case is not that they're incompetent homeschoolers. The problem is, their kids hollered for help. Should the state be turned away from responding to that because they're 'homeschooled'? No.

[hectorberlioz]

So by opting out of the public schools system, these "good" parents make the public schools worse. Selfish?

As if that somehow made the curriculum sink in, made the lazier students better, or the teaching methods better...

[Mari]

Here we hardly have private schools and homeschooling might even be illegal. (not sure about that).
I went to the elementary school around the corner, which was a 5-starred school, out of 5. Meaning that it was a school with bad statistics. We had Muslim children, children with poor parents, children with divorce parents, etc. The school was focused on delivering kids to the lowest levels of secondary education. The kids who could get higher up where left to their own devices as they "would get there" on their own anyhow. And we did.

The Dutch system is obviously different from the American one, but I think people who "can get there" will get there. Also in public school.

[Meriadoc Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by Mari

Here we hardly have private schools and homeschooling might even be illegal. (not sure about that).

I think it is. It is in Germany, I know, because it was implemented by Hitler back in the day.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

A vast majority of public schools, while they may not be great, are very good. The fact that most kids (70-80%) graduate with the ability to read, write, do math, and get a job are proof of that. Not every kid is going to be Einstein, or even a Department Store Manager, no matter how they are schooled.

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Does it include "dropouts?"

I was going to ask that. One thing about homeschooling: you can't drop out.

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

To Meri and Thain, thanks for the info. I'll try to give homeschoolers more benefit of the doubt. I've had mixed experiences with many I have known and worked with, but I will admit that many do seem well-adjusted.

You're welcome.
You live in New England, correct? (Sorry if I'm wrong.) How is homeschooling generally thought of there (or where ever you live)?

I think that public schooling can be appropriate and the best option for every family, if we choose to make it a priority.

But every family is different, so it can't possibly be the "best option for every family". This would be true even if the public schooling system was perfect. It's human nature.

That is my main concern. It may be better for the individual child, but worse for society in the long run.

It's kind of like living in a gated community. Obviously, it's safer for those who live there, and maybe even a near necessity in some cities, but is it really the direction we want our society to go?

I know it's not the direction I want.

I don't see how homeschooling makes society worse in the long run at all.




And a little fact: Almost everyone in California, home, public and private schoolers alike pay taxes for the public schools.

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by Meriadoc Brandybuck

How is homeschooling generally thought of there (or where ever you live)?

About the same as those that go to public school. Some do fine, some have a hard time. It's mostly about parenting, and a bit about personality. First and foremost, kids need attention. For those that get it from their parents, most do well. For those that don't, and there are lots, public school is all they have. I'll keep paying my tax dollars towards it 'til the day I die with no regrets.

[Insidious Rex]

Brown! Where you been the past few months? Party too hard after the Celtics won?