Homeschooling is banned in California

[Lief Erikson]

An Appelate Court declared homeschooling illegal throughout California. The decision is being strongly contested. We'll just have to see what the legislative battle results in.

I hope that some of you will sign this petition to keep homeschooling legal. I was homeschooled in California, and I have two brothers here currently being homeschooled.

Please pray for the homeschoolers, if you pray, and either way, sign the petition opposing this law that is on the front page of this site.

[Nurvingiel]

You'd think that a state that's pondering cutting $400 million from its education budget would actively encourage homeschooling. They could really use an increase in parents taking the direct costs of educating their children upon themselves.

[Earniel]

From what I've read, homeschooling IS still legal, but the parents teaching must have a teacher's certificate of some sort. I'm wondering, is that such a bad thing really? I would want parents teaching the kids themselves to know at least how to do it. Or is there something else that I'm missing?

[hectorberlioz]

My mom didn't have a certificate. She went to Berkeley for five years.

Seriously, if the public school system can't educate people enough so that they can educate their own kids....really.

This is a good place to post this again: http://www.familyhack.com/2007/11/09/homeschooler-rant/

[tolkienfan]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

From what I've read, homeschooling IS still legal, but the parents teaching must have a teacher's certificate of some sort. I'm wondering, is that such a bad thing really? I would want parents teaching the kids themselves to know at least how to do it. Or is there something else that I'm missing?

It can take a few years of school to get one (I'm not sure what kind is required by CA), even if you are already highly educated. I was being homeschooled in CA last year, and I have a lot of homeschooling friends there.

[Mari]

How come the public schools aren't good enough then?
Not meant as criticizing people who homeschool, but I just don't understand the whole system.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by tolkienfan

It can take a few years of school to get one (I'm not sure what kind is required by CA), even if you are already highly educated.

Well, that something else, I suppose. I take it there is no grace period implemented for the parents to get this certificate, then?

[Tessar]

As a future wanna-be teacher myself, and a former home schooler, I have some very personal feelings rooted in this matter.

I don't think home schooling should be illegal, but at the same time I do think that home schoolers should have to take some form of standardized testing. I don't think that's such a horrible thing since most of them pass the things -anyways- with flying colors... but I think it would help cut down on some of the people who just take the kids out of school to 'home school' because it's more convenient... and the kids don't really learn anything.

On the other hand, I think a lot of our standardized testing is pretty messed up.



I honestly don't think home schooling should be the target of ANYTHING right now, I think we need to reform the school system itself. But that's a whole 'nutha topic .

[Lief Erikson]

It's hard to get a certificate, Earniel. It's a big expense in both time and money. It also is unnecessary. Statistics show that homeschoolers tend to get a better education than people in public school, in the US. Not always, but generally. Almost all homeschooling families lack the teaching certificate, though.

[Nurvingiel]

So while homeschooling isn't banned, they're trying to bury everyone in red tape so it's too much hassle to undertake?

My original post still stands I think: a government pondering a $400 million cut to the education budget should be encouraging homeschooling. It's not like the public education system will lose funding - most people don't homeschool, and the parents of homeschooled kids still pay taxes.

Maybe the required certificate is an attempt to generate revenue?

Also, what is an Appelate Court?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

And don't sign the petition.

Honestly, Lief, if you want to represent the success of homeschooling, you should work on your reading comprehension and research skills, and not just mindlessly regurgitate the politically motivated misinformation of right-wing pressure groups.

There was ONE judge's opinion in an appellate court that read the law a particular way. Besides the fact that every homeschooling group in the state has lawyers looking at this, the State Superintendent of Schools has made a statement on the issue.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...1,247360.story

And here's some homeschoolers on the HSLDA, which chooses to make such pests of themselves.
http://hsislegal.com/

Homeschooling is fine. Lots of people are homeschooling who have no business keeping a goldfish, imo, but since they're allowed to have children, they are darn well permitted to choose how they're educated. Lots of people are teaching and running schools who shouldn't be supervising goldfish, either, so the merit is at least even.

And the people IN this particular case (as I am continually constrained to point out) are probably really BAD people, whose behavior towards their children ought to be of concern to every citizen, involved in homeschooling or not. It's no wonder the court was unimpressed (and they didn't even appear).

[hectorberlioz]

Sis, they put a serious damper on homeschooling in CA. That's bad enough.

If most homeschoolers pass standardized tests, there should be no problem. To get into college you have to pass the SAT or ACT, and I can assure you that homeschoolers can pass either.

I think what annoys me is the fact that a few incompetent homeschoolers mess things up for all the competent ones. But it's a double-standard, because are there plenty more public-shoolers that don't learn anything! But they get away with it because it's a public school. Not fair at all.

The public school systems knows not where it goes. It's a huge, slimy slug.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Homeschooling Is Not Illegal In California!!!!!!

If by that you mean that the law against it has not yet been made effective, I agree. The law does ban homeschooling, but as I said in my original post, it is being strongly contested.

If you mean that the law itself can't harm homeschoolers in California, you're wrong.

Here's a quote from Arnold Schwarzenegger on this matter:

"Every California child deserves a quality education, and parents should have the right to decide what's best for their children," said Schwarzenegger. "Parents should not be penalized for acting in the best interests of their children's education. This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts, and if the courts don't protect parents' rights, then as elected officials, we will."

Is it your belief that our governor, and the lawyers who review his public statements before he makes them, were confused when they fashioned his statement that this law must be overturned, and that the ruling attacks parental rights?

Here's another statement from the governor's office about what the new law does. "All children ages 6 to 18 must attend public or private school full-time until graduation from high school or be tutored at home by a credentialed teacher."

Do you disagree with the governor's office about what the law means for homeschoolers? If so, on what grounds?

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

And don't sign the petition.

The petition seeks to get a depublishing from the Supreme Court of the judge's opinion you mentioned. That will be a big step in removing the threat posed by this law.
QUOTE=sisterandcousinandaunt;606432]There was ONE judge's opinion in an appellate court that read the law a particular way. Besides the fact that every homeschooling group in the state has lawyers looking at this, the State Superintendent of Schools has made a statement on the issue.[/quote]
Yes, I said that this law is being strongly contested in my original post . Thanks for agreeing with me, though.

The current State Superintendent's statement is very supportive for homeschoolers. It does not eliminate the threat posed by this law, however. It would be wrong to allow ourselves to think that we need to do nothing, simply because we have legal defenders and people involved in the education system who are clashing with this thing.

You may consider HSLDA "pesky," but for my family and thousands of others in California, it is a crucial legal defense protecting us against lawsuits.

Originally Posted by HSLDA.org

State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O’Connell comes to the defense of homeschool families. “The California Department of Education policy will not change in any way as a result of this ruling. Parents still have the right to homeschool in this state,” he said.

After the Court of Appeal for the Second Appellate District in Los Angeles ruled on February 28 that parents had to be credentialed teachers to educate their own children, the statement from O’Connell is encouraging news for the homeschool community.

“O’Connell has it right,” said Michael Farris, Chairman of HSLDA. “But the court decision must still be overturned before homeschool freedom can be restored in California.”

The Court of Appeal ruling shocked the homeschool community because in one sweeping decision it effectively outlawed homeschooling.

“We hope the statement from O’Connell puts the brakes on any enforcement action,” said Farris.

HSLDA will be pursuing several legal options, including seeking review by the California Supreme Court and petitioning the same court to depublish the opinion in order to return California to being a state where a family can legally homeschool in California without fear.

“We have just started the legal battle to restore homeschool freedom in California,” said Farris.

Summary of Court of Appeal Ruling

On February 28, 2008, the Court of Appeal for the Second Appellate District in Los Angeles handed down a very bad decision regarding a case involving a homeschool family.

HSLDA was not involved with this case, and the family are not members.

The opinion holds that homeschooling is not a legal option in California. HSLDA strongly disputes this interpretation of California law. We believe that the court made a mistake when it relied on a decision from 1953 in order to show that homeschooling is not a legal option.

If the opinion is followed then California will have the most regressive law in the nation and homeschooling will be effectively banned because the only legal way to homeschool will be for the parent to hold a teaching certificate. Parents should not have to attend a four year college education program just to teach their own children.

California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the vast majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach their own children at home.

In response, HSLDA believes that the best course of action is to petition the California Supreme Court to depublish the opinion. If the opinion is depublished then this ruling can not be used against every homeschooling family in California.

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

And the people IN this particular case (as I am continually constrained to point out) are probably really BAD people, whose behavior towards their children ought to be of concern to every citizen, involved in homeschooling or not. It's no wonder the court was unimpressed (and they didn't even appear).

I don't know enough about the family involved in this particular case. The little I have heard on the radio about them causes me to lean toward agreeing with you about them. The big problem is that the laws made regarding their case were extended to all homeschoolers in California.

[Lief Erikson]

I entirely agree with you, Nurv.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Sis, they put a serious damper on homeschooling in CA. That's bad enough.

If most homeschoolers pass standardized tests, there should be no problem. To get into college you have to pass the SAT or ACT, and I can assure you that homeschoolers can pass either.

I think what annoys me is the fact that a few incompetent homeschoolers mess things up for all the competent ones. But it's a double-standard, because are there plenty more public-shoolers that don't learn anything! But they get away with it because it's a public school. Not fair at all.

The public school systems knows not where it goes. It's a huge, slimy slug.

They haven't put a damper on anything. I know, personally, dozens of CA homeschoolers, and they go on as usual.

Right now, no one compels homeschoolers, or anyone else, to take the SAT or ACT. And that's swell. Delaware just lost a week of instructional time taking state mandated testing, which homeschoolers, like other private schoolers, can ignore. I wouldn't thank HSLDA, or Tessar, or anyone else for making homeschoolers sit through THAT nonsense, which teachers in the school system universally loathe.

You can't apply standardized testing without standardized curriculum. I absolutely guarantee that most people here couldn't pass a test I would give my acting students. You couldn't, because you haven't been taught the material. If I'm teaching a vocational school for future actors, they can pass the test. Why wouldn't THAT be on the 'standardized test?' Even in this state, we have students who will be actors, musicians, brick-layers and physicists. Do you want a test that evaluates everyone's proficiency in all those areas?

The problem in this case is not that they're incompetent homeschoolers. The problem is, their kids hollered for help. Should the state be turned away from responding to that because they're 'homeschooled'? No.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I don't know enough about the family involved in this particular case. The little I have heard on the radio about them causes me to lean toward agreeing with you about them. The big problem is that the laws made regarding their case were extended to all homeschoolers in California.

An appellete court decision isn't 'making laws regarding anyone's case'. I've read the decision. The judge clearly thinks all homeschooling outside certified teachers is prohibited by California statute. Well, he may think pigs fly, too. It's what the legislature, and law enforcement, do that will affect the mass of homeschoolers. And they are not going to change to prohibit homeschooling.

I'm glad people are looking at this. But if the family involved was Jewish, or secular, or almost anything else HSLDA would have zero interest in their 'rights' and they make that clear. I have more use for people who are honest about whose rights they're protecting. *hint* It's not "homeschoolers."

[Lief Erikson]

sisterandcousinandaunt, I'm reposting here a part of my above post that wasn't there when you wrote your response.

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Homeschooling Is Not Illegal In California!!!!!!

If by that you mean that the law against it has not yet been made effective, I agree. The law does ban homeschooling, but as I said in my original post, it is being strongly contested.

If you mean that the law itself can't harm homeschoolers in California, you're wrong.

Here's a quote from Arnold Schwarzenegger on this matter:

"Every California child deserves a quality education, and parents should have the right to decide what's best for their children," said Schwarzenegger. "Parents should not be penalized for acting in the best interests of their children's education. This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts, and if the courts don't protect parents' rights, then as elected officials, we will."

Is it your belief that our governor, and the lawyers who review his public statements before he makes them, were confused when they fashioned his statement that this law must be overturned, and that the ruling attacks parental rights?

Here's another statement from the governor's office about what the new law does. "All children ages 6 to 18 must attend public or private school full-time until graduation from high school or be tutored at home by a credentialed teacher."

Do you disagree with the governor's office about what the law means for homeschoolers? If so, on what grounds?

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

An appellete court decision isn't 'making laws regarding anyone's case'. I've read the decision. The judge clearly thinks all homeschooling outside certified teachers is prohibited by California statute. Well, he may think pigs fly, too. It's what the legislature, and law enforcement, do that will affect the mass of homeschoolers. And they are not going to change to prohibit homeschooling.

I don't see any substance to this argument beyond personal opinion.

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

I'm glad people are looking at this. But if the family involved was Jewish, or secular, or almost anything else HSLDA would have zero interest in their 'rights' and they make that clear. I have more use for people who are honest about whose rights they're protecting. *hint* It's not "homeschoolers."

One of the reasons why people choose to homeschool is that they want to protect their children from immoral influences during their early years of life. People who see the public school environment this way usually will be pretty conservative Christians. There are logical reasons why HSLDA primarily protects Christians.

Originally Posted by worldpress.com

The Florida Department of Education regularly surveys homeschooling parents about their motivation for opting out of traditional schools. Until 1994–95, most families cited religion as their primary reason for homeschooling. By 1995, 37 percent of Florida homeschoolers said that “dissatisfaction with the public school instructional program” was their primary motivator, while only 29.6 percent said religion was most important. In 1995-96, 42 percent of surveyed parents said they were dissatisfied with “the public school environment–especially safety, drugs, and adverse peer pressure.”

Also, Christians happen to be the majority of the country's population. That is another part of the reason.

Originally Posted by HSLDA

HSLDA’s mission is to protect the freedom of all homeschoolers. Although our officers and directors are Christians, HSLDA membership is not limited to religiously based homeschoolers. We respect parents' rights to make the appropriate choices for the upbringing of their children. We have no agenda to make all public and home-based classrooms religious or conservative. Our primary objective is to preserve the fundamental right of parents to choose home education, free of over-zealous government officials and intrusive laws. We do put on a national conference annually and invite the board members of state organizations with whom we have worked for many years. Most, if not all, of those organizations have Christian leaders, but many serve all homeschoolers regardless of religious affiliation, as we do.

http://www.hslda.org/about/default.asp

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

They haven't put a damper on anything. I know, personally, dozens of CA homeschoolers, and they go on as usual.

Yes, of course we do. Because the court decision has not yet been made effective. As long as that's the case, we'll continue homeschooling. The ruling has been made, though, and it must be fought lest it become effective.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

sisterandcousinandaunt, I'm reposting here a part of my above post that wasn't there when you wrote your response.

If by that you mean that the law against it has not yet been made effective, I agree. The law does ban homeschooling, but as I said in my original post, it is being strongly contested.

If you mean that the law itself can't harm homeschoolers in California, you're wrong.

Here's a quote from Arnold Schwarzenegger on this matter:

"Every California child deserves a quality education, and parents should have the right to decide what's best for their children," said Schwarzenegger. "Parents should not be penalized for acting in the best interests of their children's education. This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts, and if the courts don't protect parents' rights, then as elected officials, we will."

Is it your belief that our governor, and the lawyers who review his public statements before he makes them, were confused when they fashioned his statement that this law must be overturned, and that the ruling attacks parental rights?

The Guvernator knows what a 'law" is. You don't. He addresses that directly when he says, "This outrageous ruling must be overturned by the courts, and if the courts don't protect parents' rights, then as elected officials, we will." Judges do not MAKE law. This judge interpreted a law made by the legislature (and signed by the then governor, whenever it was passed). This is a "ruling." judges are called upon to interpret laws, and that's what he did. His interpretation was a surprise to EVERYONE because it flies in the fact of years of public policy. It will be 'overturned by the courts' if it is appealed to a higher court, and if that method fails, a new law, clarifying the homeschool credentials, will be written and passed.

One of the reasons why people choose to homeschool is that they want to protect their children from immoral influences during their early years of life. People who see the public school environment this way usually will be pretty conservative Christians. There are logical reasons why HSLDA primarily protects Christians.

HSLDA ONLY protects Christians, and a very narrow slice of those, even. Read their website. They're quite clear about that. And you may think that Christians of this stripe are the majority of homeschoolers, but,as I've posted before, you're just wrong about that. Talk about 'personal opinion'. Your quote is very specific about this. According to your own source, 42% of the parents were NOT citing religion as their major concern. Non-Fundies love their kids and worry about their environment, too.


I'll deal with HSLDA in another post.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Yes, of course we do. Because the court decision has not yet been made effective. As long as that's the case, we'll continue homeschooling. The ruling has been made, though, and it must be fought lest it become effective.

I was gonna say that, you little thief

[hectorberlioz]

Wait a sec folks....I did find this recent bit:
http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2008...in-california/