Arwen and Aragorn

ArwenEvenstar · 09-22-2002, 01:32 PM

When Arwen gave up her immortality when she married Aragorn did she remain her age that she was (old?) ?

sorry if this in the wrong thread

**Nurvingiel** · 09-23-2002, 03:52 AM

Elronds brother Elros was also a half-elf who chose mortality and he lived for 500 years. (That's in the Silmarillion somewhere.)

So she would age, but slowly. Aragorn was also very long-lived, he lived for about 200 years.

But she would age because she's mortal. Wouldn't that be weird to look older than your father?

That must suck for Elrond.

Sminty_Smeagol · 09-23-2002, 06:41 AM

Nurvingiel- What does your avatar say? I started memorizing the tengwar and tehtar a week ago but I don't know what 2 of the letters are (last 2 letters of first word). Plus I don't see any vowels...?

-~*Smintz*~-

Starr Polish · 09-23-2002, 05:23 PM

Personally, I don't think that she'd necessarily age much at all. In my mind, when elves give up their immortality for love, it seems that they die from grief. So, to give up one's immortality is more along the lines of devoting your entire heart and soul to another being who will one day leave you, thus, taking your very vitality with them.

Sminty_Smeagol · 09-23-2002, 05:58 PM

Hmm.... so it's not like some metaphysical phenomenon where they suddenly start aging? Kinda makes more sense... like deovting themselves and vowing to take on/accept the responsibility and doom of dying of grief when their partner dies(which they would probably do anyway). That makes so much sense! It's much more... realistic... and romantic rather than saying "oh ok, when I say these words I'll start aging/be mortal"

-~*Smintz*~-

olsonm · 09-23-2002, 07:18 PM

I like the way Starr Polish put it. Arwen didn't become human: she became mortal. So her nature didn't change (i.e. her aging) but when she died (from grief, seemingly) she left the circles of the world never to return.

Starr Polish · 09-23-2002, 08:09 PM

I'm a sucker for tragic romances (perhaps a reason I'm such a fan of Tolkien and human/elf marriages).

Yes, how could one change their metaphysicality (is that a word?), even if one was an elf? It just makes more sense to me this way, since Tolkien did mention elves could die of grief.

durin's bane · 10-02-2002, 05:49 PM

i agree with starr polish. i think when you give up immortality for love, you don't age, you just die of gried when your partner dies or something

but then again...elves can always die of grief...i think ^_^;

Radagast The Brown · 10-03-2002, 06:27 AM

You right elves can die from grief.

I think you right, but I don't think that if Arwen will be still an elf and Aragorn will die, she will die too. Not many elves died from grief, I think.

BeardofPants · 10-03-2002, 07:50 AM

Eh?

It seemed to me that she died from grief when she laid herself down on the mound at Cerin Amroth.

Radagast The Brown · 10-03-2002, 03:19 PM

BoP, I don't think so...

Arwen become a "special human", one that can't die from disease (etc.) but mortal, because she wanted to die with Aragorn. I think.

entss89 · 10-03-2002, 04:24 PM

well the thing is that arwen never did give aragon her immortality because i was reading the appendix in my book and it said that aragon just laid down in his royal bed and died so i totally say that p. j. messup on that part but im not dissing the movie!

BeardofPants · 10-03-2002, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radagast The Brown
BoP, I don't think so...

Arwen become a "special human", one that can't die from disease (etc.) but mortal, because she wanted to die with Aragorn. I think.

I don't think she became a "special human" either. I think she was still an elf, but she chose mortality (giving up her place in Valinor); and it seemed to me that when she laid down on that mound, that she was in a sense choosing to die, seemingly of grief. And she didn't die with Aragorn: she died in Lothlorien, and a little bit after he died.

durin's bane · 10-03-2002, 05:52 PM

uh...what bop said

cassiopeia · 10-04-2002, 12:14 AM

I agree with BoP, Arwen chose to die when she laid herself down in Lothlorien, which was some time after Aragorns death.
I have probably read this somewhere, but why did Arwen have to become mortal after marrying Aragorn?

olsonm · 10-04-2002, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I have probably read this somewhere, but why did Arwen have to become mortal after marrying Aragorn?

I believe Arwen was given the same choice as her father (presumably because she was basically half-elven too) and she chose to be mortal because otherwise it would have been to painful to outlive Aragorn. I think her brothers were also given this choice. I'm tired and haven't checked the sources so I could be way off here.

Eldanuumea · 10-04-2002, 12:40 AM

Yes, Cassiopeia, why did Arwen have to become mortal just because she married a mortal? I've asked that before on other forums, but have never gotten a really satisfying answer.

olsonm · 10-04-2002, 12:53 AM

I believe the children of Elrond were given the same choice he was, and Arwen chose to be mortal because her grief would have been to great after Aragorn's death for her to want to be immortal. At least that's the way she felt about it, seemingly. Sadly Elrond was correct when he guessed that Arwen would find her choice difficult to bare in the end.

Lanelf · 10-04-2002, 07:07 AM

Yes, I think she just chose to be mortal 'cos after Aragorn died she wouldn't want to hang around. After all, you don't want to be looking after your great-great-great-great-grandchildren and watching them die, do you? I guess, if Aragorn had died earlier, she could have gone to the Undying Lands, but by the time she wanted to go there were no more ships to take.
Lanelf.

Maciliel · 10-04-2002, 10:13 AM

Elda - I always thought also that Arwen and Aragorn were bound to one another through all eternity by the power of their love AND by the nature of their purpose - they completed each other so to speak and their fate was to travel through eternity together. This being the case she would have to share his mortal doom (a choice she had only because of her Mortal lineage). I once read a fan fic that was quite beautiful (IMHO) in which the reader is given a glimpse of their re-uniting upon her death. Even during life their connection to each other was profound and they had to endure travail, yet bridged the mores/dooms of two peoples. Does this give more satisfaction?

(You are a bad influence m'dear...I registered here five minutes ago...NOW I will get to work...)

09-22-2002, 01:32 PM	#1
ArwenEvenstar Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: and why do YOU want to know? Posts: 685	Arwen and Aragorn When Arwen gave up her immortality when she married Aragorn did she remain her age that she was (old?) ? sorry if this in the wrong thread __________________ The only thing active about me is my imagination! Last edited by ArwenEvenstar : 09-22-2002 at 01:34 PM.

09-23-2002, 03:52 AM	#2
Nurvingiel Co-President of Entmoot Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,397	Half-elves. Elronds brother Elros was also a half-elf who chose mortality and he lived for 500 years. (That's in the Silmarillion somewhere.) So she would age, but slowly. Aragorn was also very long-lived, he lived for about 200 years. But she would age because she's mortal. Wouldn't that be weird to look older than your father? That must suck for Elrond.

09-23-2002, 05:23 PM	#4
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Personally, I don't think that she'd necessarily age much at all. In my mind, when elves give up their immortality for love, it seems that they die from grief. So, to give up one's immortality is more along the lines of devoting your entire heart and soul to another being who will one day leave you, thus, taking your very vitality with them. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

09-23-2002, 07:18 PM	#6
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	I like the way Starr Polish put it. Arwen didn't become human: she became mortal. So her nature didn't change (i.e. her aging) but when she died (from grief, seemingly) she left the circles of the world never to return. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

09-23-2002, 08:09 PM	#7
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	I'm a sucker for tragic romances (perhaps a reason I'm such a fan of Tolkien and human/elf marriages). Yes, how could one change their metaphysicality (is that a word?), even if one was an elf? It just makes more sense to me this way, since Tolkien did mention elves could die of grief. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

09-23-2002, 06:41 AM	#3
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	Nurvingiel- What does your avatar say? I started memorizing the tengwar and tehtar a week ago but I don't know what 2 of the letters are (last 2 letters of first word). Plus I don't see any vowels...? -~Smintz~-

09-23-2002, 05:58 PM	#5
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	Hmm.... so it's not like some metaphysical phenomenon where they suddenly start aging? Kinda makes more sense... like deovting themselves and vowing to take on/accept the responsibility and doom of dying of grief when their partner dies(which they would probably do anyway). That makes so much sense! It's much more... realistic... and romantic rather than saying "oh ok, when I say these words I'll start aging/be mortal" -~Smintz~-

10-02-2002, 05:49 PM	#8
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	i agree with starr polish. i think when you give up immortality for love, you don't age, you just die of gried when your partner dies or something but then again...elves can always die of grief...i think ^_^; __________________ Yada, yada, yada

10-03-2002, 06:27 AM	#9
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	You right elves can die from grief. I think you right, but I don't think that if Arwen will be still an elf and Aragorn will die, she will die too. Not many elves died from grief, I think. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

10-03-2002, 07:50 AM	#10
BeardofPants the Shrike Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA <3 Posts: 10,647	Eh? It seemed to me that she died from grief when she laid herself down on the mound at Cerin Amroth. __________________ "Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords

10-03-2002, 03:19 PM	#11
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	BoP, I don't think so... Arwen become a "special human", one that can't die from disease (etc.) but mortal, because she wanted to die with Aragorn. I think. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

10-03-2002, 04:24 PM	#12
entss89 lord of the ents Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nc Posts: 539	well the thing is that arwen never did give aragon her immortality because i was reading the appendix in my book and it said that aragon just laid down in his royal bed and died so i totally say that p. j. messup on that part but im not dissing the movie!

10-03-2002, 05:52 PM	#14
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	uh...what bop said __________________ Yada, yada, yada

10-04-2002, 12:14 AM	#15
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I agree with BoP, Arwen chose to die when she laid herself down in Lothlorien, which was some time after Aragorns death. I have probably read this somewhere, but why did Arwen have to become mortal after marrying Aragorn? __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

10-04-2002, 12:40 AM	#17
Eldanuumea Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 123	a very good question Yes, Cassiopeia, why did Arwen have to become mortal just because she married a mortal? I've asked that before on other forums, but have never gotten a really satisfying answer. __________________ "Queen of Sweetness and Light!" - Mordomin

10-04-2002, 12:53 AM	#18
olsonm Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: minneapolis MN Posts: 920	I believe the children of Elrond were given the same choice he was, and Arwen chose to be mortal because her grief would have been to great after Aragorn's death for her to want to be immortal. At least that's the way she felt about it, seemingly. Sadly Elrond was correct when he guessed that Arwen would find her choice difficult to bare in the end. __________________ Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!!

10-04-2002, 07:07 AM	#19
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	Yes, I think she just chose to be mortal 'cos after Aragorn died she wouldn't want to hang around. After all, you don't want to be looking after your great-great-great-great-grandchildren and watching them die, do you? I guess, if Aragorn had died earlier, she could have gone to the Undying Lands, but by the time she wanted to go there were no more ships to take. Lanelf. __________________ Hey, I'm back! resounding silence You didn't even notice I was gone, did you? Well, I'm back now anyway. Artemis Fowl must find Mulch Diggums! You'll never shut down the real Napster

10-04-2002, 10:13 AM	#20
Maciliel Sapling Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The outer circles of a struggling city Posts: 12	Elda - I always thought also that Arwen and Aragorn were bound to one another through all eternity by the power of their love AND by the nature of their purpose - they completed each other so to speak and their fate was to travel through eternity together. This being the case she would have to share his mortal doom (a choice she had only because of her Mortal lineage). I once read a fan fic that was quite beautiful (IMHO) in which the reader is given a glimpse of their re-uniting upon her death. Even during life their connection to each other was profound and they had to endure travail, yet bridged the mores/dooms of two peoples. Does this give more satisfaction? (You are a bad influence m'dear...I registered here five minutes ago...NOW I will get to work...)

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