Questions of origins...

[Sminty_Smeagol]

I can't seem to find origins for Ithildin (which, for some reason, I have a keeni nterest in learning about) and hobbits... So far I have only read part of The Book of Lost Tales I; The Silm; The hobbit and the LOTR -I also have misc. books about his works like an encyclopedia. I can't seem to really be able to find an origin for either of these, especially ithildin. Any ideas?


-~*Sminty*~-

[Ñólendil]

There is no Encyclopedia by Tolkien and no Authorized Encyclopedia at all. If you have the Illustrated Encyclopedia of Middle-earth by David Day, burn it. David Day is not a Tolkien scholar and his work is poison. Take it from one who was once under it's spell. The Complete Guide to Middle-earth by Robert Foster is better, though by now it is very outdated.

I don't know where you might find out more about ithildin. The Book of Lost Tales certainly wouldn't be useful. You might try Of Dwarves and Men in The Peoples of Middle-earth (Volume XII of the History of Middle-earth). There's a bit more to learn about Hobbits (and I mean a bit) in Unfinished Tales, in the Appendix to the Disaster of the Gladden Fields. The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien is a great book for Hobbit-lore, too. David Day has written The Hobbit Companion. If you come across this book, run away very fast, or if you are of the stouter sort, stay a bit to sneeze violently on it's pages.

The Peoples of Middle-earth yields more Hobbit information, to be sure. There's a complete list there of all the known Hobbit-surnames in the Shire, and some Family Trees that didn't make it into the Appendices. There's more too, I'm sure, but I haven't looked into it much. It's all in the history of the Appendices part. I am more interested in the other sections that deal with the Elder Days.

[Blackheart]

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/i/ithildin.html

It's a loverly site that any Tolkein fan should put in his favorites.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

[Sister Golden Hair]

Moving to the Middle-earth forum.

[Ñólendil]

I just realized Sminty (welcome to the Moot, by the way, and don't try the salmon) was asking about origins. What sort of origins do you mean? Outside or inside? Do you mean, "I want to know the history of how Tolkien came to 'create' Hobbits", or "I want to know the history of how Hobbits came to be, inside the mythology?"

As for the latter, no tale really tells, but Hobbits came from Men. Indeed Tolkien once called them "a diminutive Race of Man".

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Thankyou for all of your quick replies! Ñólendil- Yes, it is the one by David Day... I don't like it much but it supplies a little bit of knowledge behind names... It does seem sort of.... off... is it innacurate? Why do you despise it so much? And I meant by origins how they came to be inside his mythology.

Blackheart, thanks for the link. It is actually already in my favorites I wanted to know if I could find an actual tale or something. Everything in Tolkien's books seems to have an origin or an explanation... I'm relatively new to them myself, I started them just before last schoolyear (7th grade), and I didn't become interested in histories of middle earth and other books by Tolkien until perhaps 6 months ago when I realized how wonderful his little world (which has become an alternative universe for me ) really is.


Anyway, enough of my garrulous speech.

Diola lle Hodoerea an nólëlya

-~*Sminty*~-- (^an idiot trying to pretend to learn elvish/quenya/HELP?!^)

[markedel]

This is just from memory but I swear there's something offhand in the sil that mentions the origins of mithril obliquely. Have to reread the silmarillion. The Peoples of Middle Earth does have dwaf info too, so who knows?

[Ñólendil]

Sminty, "inaccurate" is an understatement. It is poison to the Tolkien-reader. Open that book and adhere to its words and youre vision of Tolkien's Middle-earth will be twisted. David Day makes his own Middle-earth in the Encyclopia. I despise it because it robbed me of important time and reading. I could have been reading some Tolkien books that would have moved me along quicker and sooner. I'd be further ahead now if I had never picked up a Day book. When you get deep into David Day, you have to unlearn a lot of stuff to progress in your Tolkien studies.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Gosh... this thread has been moved 3, maybe 4 times (I think it was this thread anyways... and it just got moved... I believe it's this thread but I know one of my early ones got moved like 3 times in 2 days... goodness gracious!)

[Bertuthiel]

*Immediately spits out the salmon she's just tried*
BLAH!
Thank you for the advice

*goes back to check the Ithildin site*

[Sister Golden Hair]

Btw, Bertuthiel welcome to Entmoot.

[Michael Martinez]

Mithril would be a naturally occuring substance (presumably an element, but perhaps an alloy of some sort).

Ithildin was invented or discovered by the Noldor of Eregion.

[Sminty_Smeagol]

thanks...

btw i havent been posting lately because i've been grounded then i get in trouble for going online when i'm not supposed to even though my mom didnt tell me i wasnt supposed to that day! argh... i hate parents!

-~*Sminty*~-

PS- forgive me for no punctuation, it's 7am and im tired lol

[Elbereth]

I though Ithilian was part of the kingdom of Gondor in which people lived after the overthrow of Morgorth, but abandoned when Sauron came back (when he made the rings). Maybe I am completely of. Smithy, if you want to know about the origans of hobbits, you ought to read THE LETTERS OF JRR TOLKIEN compiled by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien. It has some stuff in it about how he came to think up the people of Middle Earth. The Appendixes in RotK are useful, too.