(EE) Witch King vs. Gandalf

The Wizard from Milan · 01-29-2005, 07:54 PM

In the EE of RotK the Witch King breaks Gandalf's staff.
Why is that? I am pretty sure it is not in the book

me9996 · 01-29-2005, 08:33 PM

diddo

Elemmírë · 01-29-2005, 09:05 PM

Because Peter Jackson is an idiot.

Ugh... don't remind me of it...

They probably wanted to show the incredible power of the Witch King that Sauron had at his disposal, and ended up missing the whole point.

ItalianLegolas · 01-29-2005, 09:53 PM

yeahm but doesn't Gandalf have his staff late on?

Pytt · 01-29-2005, 09:59 PM

He has a staff later on, yes. I think so at least. Peter Jackson has made so much idiotic changes he didn't have to. *arg*

Elemmírë · 01-29-2005, 10:42 PM

*gently pats Pytt's hand*

Arg.

**Nurvingiel** · 01-30-2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

Because Peter Jackson is an idiot.

Ugh... don't remind me of it...

They probably wanted to show the incredible power of the Witch King that Sauron had at his disposal, and ended up missing the whole point.

Could they not have done this by not making the Nazgul out as being incompetant in other part of the movies?
eg. FotR the mounted Nazgul can't catch a running Frodo over a reasonably significant distance (not in book like that) and in TTT at Osgiliath, the Nazgul hovers directly in front of Frodo for a decent period of time, with no one else occupying his attention, Frodo isn't hiding, and no Elves are messing with him. And yet... he does nothing.
I know they're less effective in daylight, but honestly.

/RANT

Manveru · 01-30-2005, 12:28 PM

well actually Faramir shot that Nazgul just as the fell beast was about to grab him

**Nurvingiel** · 01-30-2005, 12:39 PM

Oh yeah. Well, the real Nazgul still would have got him before.

But my FotR comment still stands.

***Tessar*** · 01-30-2005, 06:16 PM

GAH that change makes me SO MAD!!!!! It just about RUINS the entire movie!!!!

GANDALF KICKS TOO MUCH BUTT TO FALL BEFORE A PUNY NAZGUL-KINGY-THINGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Manveru · 01-30-2005, 06:19 PM

ya its really dumb

ItalianLegolas · 01-30-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessar

GANDALF KICKS TOO MUCH BUTT TO FALL BEFORE A PUNY NAZGUL-KINGY-THINGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense, Gandalf is a Maia, and the Nazgul are pretty much ghosts of evil Kings of Men. He should be able to take them all, okay maybe not all, but at least 1 or 2.

Bombadillo · 01-31-2005, 05:15 PM

He fended all of them off with light rays from his staff to protect the Riders of Rohan In RotK. And in the book I think he could have taken at least two at once as well, but he never met them.

What annoys me is that the guy who defeats Gandalf in that scene is later seen being defeated by a random eagle. I know that was in the books, but I think the eagles had a hard time of it either way, and in the movie they were just so unexpected, non-readers still awake at the end of RotK all said in unison "WTF!?"

Eagles shouldn't be better than Gandalf.

The Gaffer · 02-07-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

non-readers still awake at the end of RotK all said in unison "WTF!?"

Snigger. Should have cut the eagles altogether as there's no way of making it not look ridiculous IMO.

Having just watched the EE, I must add my disdain.

Design and effects, stunning; script and direction witless.

These clumsy and perfunctory attempts at making us go "oo-er, isn't he scary" were just a waste of space. "In rode the Lord of the Nazgul.." is such a groovy, climactic scene from the book, it was just asking to be lifted directly.

And what about Shadowfax, "who alone of the free horses..etc etc", freaking out??

On other matters, Gandalf's staff seems to have been one of a six-pack.

***Rían*** · 02-07-2005, 06:26 PM

That scene really made me shudder! WHY OH WHY?!?!

"six-pack" - LOL!

But on a purely horsie note - as one who has spent a lot of time around horses, I interpret Shadowfax's actions as a challenge and a defiance (at least the rearing and neighing part). I really haven't had time to watch it much - maybe he runs away after that part, I don't remember - but at least at first, I think he's neighing a challenge, like a proper cheeky lord-of-horses stallion.

barrelrider110 · 02-07-2005, 08:49 PM

I kept thinking... I shoulda bought the theatrical version. I waited this long for this??? I just had to leave the room and brush my teeth.

Pthoooooo!

Durin1 · 02-10-2005, 06:29 AM

The scene makes Gandalf's fight wih the Balrog less significant, along with the implications of Saruman having his own staff broken by Gandalf; resulting in the audience's perception that Gandalf has grown in power whilst Saruman is diminished.

Instead, we have Gandalf seemingly being mastered (so easily)by a Nazgul. Another one of those major moments when I thought.. "PJ you stupid prat... are you sure you understand the book?".

Pytt · 02-10-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrelrider110

I kept thinking... I shoulda bought the theatrical version. I waited this long for this??? I just had to leave the room and brush my teeth.

Pthoooooo!

Yes. The EE was good, but waiting for that long? and I said it was good, but it ceartainly had it's flaws, like the others. But that scene really ruined it. What an idiot who directed..

The Wizard from Milan · 02-11-2005, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durin1

The scene [...] diminish[es] the implications of Saruman having his own staff broken by Gandalf;

I agree!! (assuming my "cut" represents what you mean)

Durin1 · 02-11-2005, 04:46 AM

It does!

01-29-2005, 07:54 PM	#1
The Wizard from Milan Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 421	(EE) Witch King vs. Gandalf In the EE of RotK the Witch King breaks Gandalf's staff. Why is that? I am pretty sure it is not in the book

01-29-2005, 09:05 PM	#3
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	Because Peter Jackson is an idiot. Ugh... don't remind me of it... They probably wanted to show the incredible power of the Witch King that Sauron had at his disposal, and ended up missing the whole point. __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

01-29-2005, 09:53 PM	#4
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	yeahm but doesn't Gandalf have his staff late on? __________________ What was lost is now found.

01-29-2005, 09:59 PM	#5
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	He has a staff later on, yes. I think so at least. Peter Jackson has made so much idiotic changes he didn't have to. arg __________________ Don't Panic!

01-29-2005, 10:42 PM	#6
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	gently pats Pytt's hand Arg. __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

01-30-2005, 12:28 PM	#8
Manveru Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 256	well actually Faramir shot that Nazgul just as the fell beast was about to grab him __________________ Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland

01-30-2005, 06:16 PM	#10
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	GAH that change makes me SO MAD!!!!! It just about RUINS the entire movie!!!! GANDALF KICKS TOO MUCH BUTT TO FALL BEFORE A PUNY NAZGUL-KINGY-THINGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

01-30-2005, 06:19 PM	#11
Manveru Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 256	ya its really dumb __________________ Earendel arose where the shadow flows At Ocean's silent brim; Through the mouth of night as a ray of light Where the shores are sheer and dim He launched his bark like a silver spark From the last and lonely sand; Then on sunlit breath of day's fiery death He sailed from Westerland

01-31-2005, 05:15 PM	#13
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	He fended all of them off with light rays from his staff to protect the Riders of Rohan In RotK. And in the book I think he could have taken at least two at once as well, but he never met them. What annoys me is that the guy who defeats Gandalf in that scene is later seen being defeated by a random eagle. I know that was in the books, but I think the eagles had a hard time of it either way, and in the movie they were just so unexpected, non-readers still awake at the end of RotK all said in unison "WTF!?" Eagles shouldn't be better than Gandalf. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

02-07-2005, 06:26 PM	#15
*Rían* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	That scene really made me shudder! WHY OH WHY?!?! "six-pack" - LOL! But on a purely horsie note - as one who has spent a lot of time around horses, I interpret Shadowfax's actions as a challenge and a defiance (at least the rearing and neighing part). I really haven't had time to watch it much - maybe he runs away after that part, I don't remember - but at least at first, I think he's neighing a challenge, like a proper cheeky lord-of-horses stallion. __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva!

02-07-2005, 08:49 PM	#16
barrelrider110 Peer of the realm of Sanguine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Hill, Marlton, NJ Posts: 798	I kept thinking... I shoulda bought the theatrical version. I waited this long for this??? I just had to leave the room and brush my teeth. Pthoooooo! __________________ “"I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ringwinner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider," Fear Complacency! ___________________ Something under the bed is drooling

02-10-2005, 06:29 AM	#17
Durin1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 221	The scene makes Gandalf's fight wih the Balrog less significant, along with the implications of Saruman having his own staff broken by Gandalf; resulting in the audience's perception that Gandalf has grown in power whilst Saruman is diminished. Instead, we have Gandalf seemingly being mastered (so easily)by a Nazgul. Another one of those major moments when I thought.. "PJ you stupid prat... are you sure you understand the book?". __________________ Durin the Sleepless!

02-11-2005, 04:46 AM	#20
Durin1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 221	It does! __________________ Durin the Sleepless!

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