Durin's Bane

[Insidious Rex]

So I rarely actually talk Tolkien here anymore it seems but a I was asked a question recently for which I couldnt immediately reply with an answer so I figured Id come here to ask the experts...

Why didnt Sauron ally with the Balrog in Moria? Was it just because he couldnt control a fellow Maiar and this was all about being in complete control of his minions (orcs, trolls, nazgul, etc.)? Or was it something else? I mean seems like an awesome ally to have in his quest to defeat the forces of good. I cant imagine he didnt know it was there because even if he hadnt had suspicions after the Dwarves were routed by the creature and abandoned their underground kingdom completely AND the Silvan Elves were freaked out enough to leave their homeland even, then once he sent orcs and trolls to block the Misty Mountain passes they would have reported back essentially: HOLY CRAP! THERES A MONSTER IN MORIA! HELP! Or maybe he did communicate with the Balrog and asked him kindly not to kill his orcs and trolls that will be sharing his dark lair or this was just an unspoken understanding between the two evil entities. And Ive heard folks say its no coincidence the creature awoke when it did despite the insistence that it was greedy Dwarfs mining too deep that awakened it because it appeared in the EXACT same year that the Nazgul returned to Mordor.

All this aside, why wasnt there a direct and obvious alliance between Sauron and the Balrog? Kind of like what there was in Angband with Morgoth although granted Morgoth was Ainur.

[Earniel]

I remember there have been some threads about that. I don't think we eventually reached any concensus (quelle surprise) on why Dúrin's Bane and Sauron didn't join forces.

I don't know who proposed it first, but I personally liked the theory that the balrog just wasn't interested. Perhaps the same way there was no alliance between Smaug and Sauron. I think we often forget that just because Sauron was the one so insistant on world domination that he was not necessarily the strongest creature around. It is quite possible that the Balrog possessed more power and that therefor Sauron had nothing to offer what a Balrog might like enough to join forces. The Balrog seemed quite content with controlling Moria, he never tried to expand his domain and annex the neighbours.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

And Ive heard folks say its no coincidence the creature awoke when it did despite the insistence that it was greedy Dwarfs mining too deep that awakened it because it appeared in the EXACT same year that the Nazgul returned to Mordor.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

The Balrog seemed quite content with controllingMoria, he never tried to expand his domain and annex the neighbours.

Ref the 'Free Will' thread and the above quotes, let me speculate on one scenario: The Balrog, being an ancient creature and having perhaps the best claim to 'ownership' of the Misty Mountain deeps, would feel aggrieved by Durin's looting band, but chose the specific time for exacting revenge due to some general 'awakening of evil' in Middle Earth. Which begs the question if there was some singular Cataclysmic event that tipped Sauron, Saruman, the Balrog, et al. towards action.. Or perhaps all the parties were keeping tabs on each others and chose to be pro-active when they saw that everyone else did. News travels fast.

[Insidious Rex]

Good thoughts. My guess is that Sauron was aware that the Balrog was there which is why he steered them to go through the mines rather than over the mountain because he knew that if his orcs and trolls didnt take care of them which he kind of figured they wouldnt then the Balrog might sense them and go after them. And Im sure the Balrog was aware of something going on and a building up of evil but I dont think there was any kind of direct teleconference or something between Sauron and the Balrog where they sat and discussed strategy. It seems unlike either entity to operate in that way (although clearly he did "conference" with Saruman to use him to his advantage). In fact it becomes clear that Tolkien had to kill off the Balrog once he encounters the Fellowship or else the creature would have thrown a monkey wrench into the whole storyline because theres a good chance he would have followed them out of Moria and suddenly you have this significantly powerful evil free radical in the equation.

My question has always been did Tolkien bring the Balrog into the story line simply to provide a being capable of killing Gandalf and in this way give him the opportunity to transform to his stronger White form?

[Varnafindë]

I think Tolkien says somewhere that he was stuck for months in his storyline in the Mines of Moria. Perhaps the Balrog was the way he finally got things moving again?

That depends on where exactly in the story he was stuck, though. Could be by Balin's tomb.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

the creature would have thrown a monkey wrench into the whole storyline because theres a good chance he would have followed them out of Moria and suddenly you have this significantly powerful evil free radical in the equation.

My question has always been did Tolkien bring the Balrog into the story line simply to provide a being capable of killing Gandalf and in this way give him the opportunity to transform to his stronger White form?

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Perhaps the Balrog was the way he finally got things moving again?

Yes it seems reasonably that the Balrog represented the sort of ancient, 'deep-evil' being befitting as a foe to the stature of Gandalf the Grey, and qualifying as the 'level-up boss' (pardon the gameing language) for a Gandalf the White.

The idea of a powerful evil free radical() roaming the areas around Lothlorien is slightly unsettling. The threat of a Balrog exiting the Mines of Moria to wreak havoc does serve to underline how delicate the balance of power is in ME (at least prior to the War). To be honest I don't think Sauron would be particularly fond of the Balrog going cross-country.

So the Balrog clearly is an X-factor, and had to be done away with for the good of the plot.

I always imagined though that there was more than one Balrog swimming so to speak the deeps of the Misty Mountains. Did JRRT ever comment on that?