Elves in Aman

Finglas · 11-12-2001, 05:56 PM

Why did the Valar want the Elves to leave Middle Earth? Were they giving up on all of the work that they had strated there?

Ñólendil · 11-12-2001, 06:29 PM

Ulmo alone of the Valar (it appears) wished that the Elves should stay. The majority of the Valar wanted them to come to Aman because of the evils of Melkor that were in the world and would yet come. It was for their own good. Ofcourse it was a summons and not a command.

Those who refused to go on the Great Journey and their descendants could not enter the Blessed Realm while they lived, for they had chosen. The opportunity was always open to those who had gone on the Great Journey, or their descendants.

Finglas · 11-12-2001, 06:32 PM

Dosen't it seem like the Valar were giving up on ME?

Ñólendil · 11-12-2001, 06:45 PM

Well, yes, I suppose so. They had been and were being driven out of Middle-earth, in different ways, until their Realm was removed from the visible world altogether. They never have given up on it, though, even if it seems that way.

Kirinki54 · 11-13-2001, 05:45 AM

What about the introduction of Time?

Did not that element in the end change conditions too much for all Elves in ME, either the had gone on the Great Journey (and perhaps come back with the Noldor) or not?

Ñólendil · 11-13-2001, 06:36 PM

Time quickened a good deal in one sense or another in the Ages of the Sun, which hastened the fading of the Fair Folk (and the coming of the Dominion of Men), but this was ordained to occur by Eru. Time as an actual force with or without reckoning began when Eä was set amid the Void: it's life was Time. The counting of Time began with the Lamps, which was long before the Awakening of the Firstborn. So I guess one might say yes and no.

11-12-2001, 05:56 PM	#1
Finglas Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: here, there, everywhere Posts: 88	Elves in Aman Why did the Valar want the Elves to leave Middle Earth? Were they giving up on all of the work that they had strated there?

11-12-2001, 06:29 PM	#2
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Ulmo alone of the Valar (it appears) wished that the Elves should stay. The majority of the Valar wanted them to come to Aman because of the evils of Melkor that were in the world and would yet come. It was for their own good. Ofcourse it was a summons and not a command. Those who refused to go on the Great Journey and their descendants could not enter the Blessed Realm while they lived, for they had chosen. The opportunity was always open to those who had gone on the Great Journey, or their descendants. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-12-2001, 06:45 PM	#4
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Well, yes, I suppose so. They had been and were being driven out of Middle-earth, in different ways, until their Realm was removed from the visible world altogether. They never have given up on it, though, even if it seems that way. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-13-2001, 06:36 PM	#6
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Time quickened a good deal in one sense or another in the Ages of the Sun, which hastened the fading of the Fair Folk (and the coming of the Dominion of Men), but this was ordained to occur by Eru. Time as an actual force with or without reckoning began when Eä was set amid the Void: it's life was Time. The counting of Time began with the Lamps, which was long before the Awakening of the Firstborn. So I guess one might say yes and no. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

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11-12-2001, 06:32 PM	#3
Finglas Enting Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: here, there, everywhere Posts: 88	Dosen't it seem like the Valar were giving up on ME?

11-13-2001, 05:45 AM	#5
Kirinki54 Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: European Union Posts: 463	What about the introduction of Time? Did not that element in the end change conditions too much for all Elves in ME, either the had gone on the Great Journey (and perhaps come back with the Noldor) or not?