THe difference

Haradrim · 08-21-2004, 10:39 PM

What was the difference between the first editions of the Hobbit and the later ones. I know riddles in the dark was chaged but what exactly was changed?

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-22-2004, 08:34 AM

I'm not sure but I think Tolkien edited it to fit with LotR as when he wrote the Hobbit he wasn't planning on writing a sequel.

Haradrim · 08-22-2004, 08:37 AM

I know why he changed it. He changed it becaus eapparently there was something very wrong with Riddles in th eDarkl that would not have amtched up to LOTR in any way. SO he had to give it a rewrite. Also apparently he had to fix his dwarvish as some people told him his dwarvish was wrong on the map. LOL! Imagine telling Tolkien he was wrong about his Dwarvish. HEHEHE

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-28-2004, 02:36 PM

Did he includ the Ring in the first addition.

Haradrim · 08-29-2004, 06:10 PM

The ring was definately there but I think I have heard that Gollum and Bilbo played the riddle game for the ring instead but that wouldnt have worked becasue if the rign was Gollums he never would have gambled it. But I dont know what really happeneed so anyone w3ith an older edition please inform us.

Elanor the Fair · 08-30-2004, 07:13 AM

I've heard this discussed somewhere - I'm not sure where but I think it is in one of the EE versions of the LOTR DVD's. I recall the son of the publisher discussing something like this.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 08-30-2004, 07:30 AM

Yeah isn'i it Ray Unwin or something, I remember he said that it didn't fit LotR but he didn't say what he changed.

Haradrim · 09-02-2004, 01:53 AM

Yeah but what did they change. This is going to kill me. I need to find out. Does anyone know? Anyone? ANYBODY??????? (dies in panic attack)

Elanor the Fair · 09-04-2004, 07:40 AM

OK, the answer can be found in the EE edition of TTT.

Apparently, in the original version of the Hobbit, Gollum lets Bilbo go at the end of the riddle game with no threat to his life. When Tolkien wrote LoTR he realised that this characterisation of both Gollum and the Ring would not tie in with the story so he rewrote the Hobbit. The newer version has Gollum totally obsessed with the Ring - an evil creature who threatens Bilbo's life.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-04-2004, 08:47 AM

So Gollum was a tortured soul who had managed to overcome corruptions, but in the newer edition he is the evil, twisted creature we know and love today!

barrelrider110 · 09-07-2004, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elanor the Fair

OK, the answer can be found in the EE edition of TTT.

Apparently, in the original version of the Hobbit, Gollum lets Bilbo go at the end of the riddle game with no threat to his life. When Tolkien wrote LoTR he realised that this characterisation of both Gollum and the Ring would not tie in with the story so he rewrote the Hobbit. The newer version has Gollum totally obsessed with the Ring - an evil creature who threatens Bilbo's life.

Tolkien explains the revision in the Prologue to tFotR:

"This account Bilbo set down in his memoirs, and he seems never to have altered it himself, not even after the Council of Elrond. Evidently it still appeared in the original Red Book, as it did in several of the copies and abstracts. But many copies contain the true account (as an alternative), derived no doubt from notes by Frodo or Samwise, both of whom learned the truth, though they seem to have been unwilling to delete anything actually written by the old hobbit himself. Gandalf, however, disbelieved Bilbo's first story, as soon as he heard it, and he continued to be very curious about the ring. Eventually he got the true tale out of Bilbo after much questioning, which for a while strained their friendship; but the wizard seemed to think the truth important. Though he did not say so to Bilbo, he also thought it important, and disturbing, to find that the good hobbit had not told the truth from the first: quite contrary to his
habit."

For more interesting info, pick up the "The Annotated Hobbit", by JRRT annotated by Douglass Anderson.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-07-2004, 11:42 AM

We are talking Tolkien editing it, not Bilbo!

barrelrider110 · 09-07-2004, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

We are talking editing it, not Bilbo!

Correct. My point was, that Tolkien felt the need to explain the edit to his readers.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-07-2004, 01:39 PM

Okay. I get you now.

brownjenkins · 09-07-2004, 02:08 PM

you got me interested... i tracked down this article with a bit of googling

revisions

and this page that has more info then you probably want to know about editions

but some of the old covers are pretty cool

editions

the book barrelrider110 mentioned sounds pretty indepth on the info too

barrelrider110 · 09-07-2004, 02:32 PM

Thank you brownjenkins, well done.

Telcontar_Dunedain · 09-07-2004, 03:04 PM

Some of those covers are quite cool. I have the black Harper Collins one.

08-21-2004, 10:39 PM	#1
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	THe difference What was the difference between the first editions of the Hobbit and the later ones. I know riddles in the dark was chaged but what exactly was changed? __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-22-2004, 08:34 AM	#2
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	I'm not sure but I think Tolkien edited it to fit with LotR as when he wrote the Hobbit he wasn't planning on writing a sequel. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-22-2004, 08:37 AM	#3
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	I know why he changed it. He changed it becaus eapparently there was something very wrong with Riddles in th eDarkl that would not have amtched up to LOTR in any way. SO he had to give it a rewrite. Also apparently he had to fix his dwarvish as some people told him his dwarvish was wrong on the map. LOL! Imagine telling Tolkien he was wrong about his Dwarvish. HEHEHE __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-28-2004, 02:36 PM	#4
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Did he includ the Ring in the first addition. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

08-29-2004, 06:10 PM	#5
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	The ring was definately there but I think I have heard that Gollum and Bilbo played the riddle game for the ring instead but that wouldnt have worked becasue if the rign was Gollums he never would have gambled it. But I dont know what really happeneed so anyone w3ith an older edition please inform us. __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

08-30-2004, 07:13 AM	#6
Elanor the Fair Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In the kitchen ...... still! Posts: 228	I've heard this discussed somewhere - I'm not sure where but I think it is in one of the EE versions of the LOTR DVD's. I recall the son of the publisher discussing something like this. __________________ Life's too short to eat bad chocolate

08-30-2004, 07:30 AM	#7
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Yeah isn'i it Ray Unwin or something, I remember he said that it didn't fit LotR but he didn't say what he changed. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-02-2004, 01:53 AM	#8
Haradrim The Official Court Jester of the Entmoot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Far Harad Posts: 1,006	Yeah but what did they change. This is going to kill me. I need to find out. Does anyone know? Anyone? ANYBODY??????? (dies in panic attack) __________________ A Bit More Grown Up This Time...

09-04-2004, 07:40 AM	#9
Elanor the Fair Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: In the kitchen ...... still! Posts: 228	OK, the answer can be found in the EE edition of TTT. Apparently, in the original version of the Hobbit, Gollum lets Bilbo go at the end of the riddle game with no threat to his life. When Tolkien wrote LoTR he realised that this characterisation of both Gollum and the Ring would not tie in with the story so he rewrote the Hobbit. The newer version has Gollum totally obsessed with the Ring - an evil creature who threatens Bilbo's life. __________________ Life's too short to eat bad chocolate

09-04-2004, 08:47 AM	#10
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	So Gollum was a tortured soul who had managed to overcome corruptions, but in the newer edition he is the evil, twisted creature we know and love today! __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-07-2004, 11:42 AM	#12
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	We are talking Tolkien editing it, not Bilbo! __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 Last edited by Telcontar_Dunedain : 09-07-2004 at 01:38 PM.

09-07-2004, 01:39 PM	#14
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Okay. I get you now. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

09-07-2004, 02:08 PM	#15
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	you got me interested... i tracked down this article with a bit of googling revisions and this page that has more info then you probably want to know about editions but some of the old covers are pretty cool editions the book barrelrider110 mentioned sounds pretty indepth on the info too __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

09-07-2004, 02:32 PM	#16
barrelrider110 Peer of the realm of Sanguine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Hill, Marlton, NJ Posts: 798	Thank you brownjenkins, well done. __________________ “"I am the friend of bears and the guest of eagles. I am Ringwinner and Luckwearer; and I am Barrel-rider," Fear Complacency! ___________________ Something under the bed is drooling

09-07-2004, 03:04 PM	#17
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	Some of those covers are quite cool. I have the black Harper Collins one. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

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