The Problem with the films? They're too good.

Black Breathalizer · 12-10-2003, 01:05 PM

We're less than a week away from the conclusion to the greatest film fantasy series of all time. Ah, what glorious an..tici...pation!

One of the interesting things I've noticed: As the popularity and the critical acclaim for the film series has continued to increase over the past two years, so has the intensity of the complaints from a small but vocal group of Tolkien fans who were desirous of a more literal translation of the books.

So why has this happened? Here is my theory...

In the beginning, expectations were low. Most Tolkien fans were sceptical of the project. Most thought that a movie trilogy of the LOTR couldn't do the books justice. The most common comment I heard was that the only way you could create a live-action film version of LOTR would be to do a 20+ hour TV miniseries.

Then Jackson's FOTR came out and Tolkien fans were stunned and in awe of what they saw. Even those demanding a literal translation admitted to be caught up in "seeing" Middle Earth and experiencing universally accepted film translations from the books like the Gandalf versus Balrog confrontation.

But as Tolkien fans became more accustomed to seeing the films' incredible scenery, dead-on casting, magnificent art direction, and unquestionable directorial skills, they took it for granted and began focusing on the one significant area of divergence: the story. Even though the screenwriters had valid filmmaking reasons for all the changes they've made, the feeling among these people was: "hey, everything else about these films is near-perfection, so why couldn't Jackson have given us a perfect story too?!?!?"

So essentially, the films have become the victim of their own amazing quality. If these films had been another silly Ralph Bakshi-type production, we wouldn't be having this debate.

thranduil · 12-10-2003, 01:11 PM

I see this thread being closed before too long.

***Valandil*** · 12-10-2003, 01:14 PM

It does appear it will provoke certain mooters, doesn't it?

Ah well... fun to play in a thread before it gets slammed shut!

thranduil · 12-10-2003, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Black Breathalizer

In the beginning, expectations were low. Most Tolkien fans were sceptical of the project. Most thought that a movie trilogy of the LOTR couldn't do the books justice. The most common comment I heard was that the only way you could create a live-action film version of LOTR would be to do a 20+ hour TV miniseries.

So essentially, the films have become the victim of their own amazing quality. If these films had been another silly Ralph Bakshi-type production, we wouldn't be having this debate.

I say a miniseries would have been disastrous and no doubt I would have hated them. Glad they didn't go that way. And of course everything that gets big has haters. Not everyone has the same opinions. Though I admit sometimes people hate things just because they made it big and were successfull.

***Valandil*** · 12-10-2003, 01:18 PM

Movies DEFINITELY better than a mini-series. For one, there's no way they could have recovered $300M with a mini-series, so we would have had low-budget effects, etc.

thranduil · 12-10-2003, 01:21 PM

I couldn't watch them all, I work every night. I wouldn't even know what you all were debating about. But low budget means less action, more story?

squinteyedsoutherner · 12-10-2003, 01:23 PM

"The Problem with the films? They're too good."

“Then Jackson's FOTR came out and Tolkien fans were stunned and in awe of what they saw”

“universally accepted film translations”

“dead-on casting”

“unquestionable directorial skills”

“Even though the screenwriters had valid filmmaking reasons for all the changes they've made”

“So essentially, the films have become the victim of their own amazing quality”

The hyperbolist nature of this post is clearly intended to provoke another brawl over the same old issues.

thranduil · 12-10-2003, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by squinteyedsoutherner

The hyperbole of this post is clearly intended to provoke another brawl over the same old issues.

obviously, but I doubt anyone feels the need to argue against him anymore.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-10-2003, 01:29 PM

This is a redundant thread, and will only serve to inflame this forum further.

Closing

12-10-2003, 01:05 PM	#1
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	The Problem with the films? They're too good. We're less than a week away from the conclusion to the greatest film fantasy series of all time. Ah, what glorious an..tici...pation! One of the interesting things I've noticed: As the popularity and the critical acclaim for the film series has continued to increase over the past two years, so has the intensity of the complaints from a small but vocal group of Tolkien fans who were desirous of a more literal translation of the books. So why has this happened? Here is my theory... In the beginning, expectations were low. Most Tolkien fans were sceptical of the project. Most thought that a movie trilogy of the LOTR couldn't do the books justice. The most common comment I heard was that the only way you could create a live-action film version of LOTR would be to do a 20+ hour TV miniseries. Then Jackson's FOTR came out and Tolkien fans were stunned and in awe of what they saw. Even those demanding a literal translation admitted to be caught up in "seeing" Middle Earth and experiencing universally accepted film translations from the books like the Gandalf versus Balrog confrontation. But as Tolkien fans became more accustomed to seeing the films' incredible scenery, dead-on casting, magnificent art direction, and unquestionable directorial skills, they took it for granted and began focusing on the one significant area of divergence: the story. Even though the screenwriters had valid filmmaking reasons for all the changes they've made, the feeling among these people was: "hey, everything else about these films is near-perfection, so why couldn't Jackson have given us a perfect story* too?!?!?"* So essentially, the films have become the victim of their own amazing quality. If these films had been another silly Ralph Bakshi-type production, we wouldn't be having this debate.

12-10-2003, 01:23 PM	#7
squinteyedsoutherner Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 198	"The Problem with the films? They're too good." “Then Jackson's FOTR came out and Tolkien fans were stunned and in awe of what they saw” “universally accepted film translations” “dead-on casting” “unquestionable directorial skills” “Even though the screenwriters had valid filmmaking reasons for all the changes they've made” “So essentially, the films have become the victim of their own amazing quality” The hyperbolist nature of this post is clearly intended to provoke another brawl over the same old issues. Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 12-10-2003 at 01:26 PM.

12-10-2003, 01:29 PM	#9
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	This is a redundant thread, and will only serve to inflame this forum further. Closing __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

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12-10-2003, 01:11 PM	#2
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	I see this thread being closed before too long.

12-10-2003, 01:14 PM	#3
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	It does appear it will provoke certain mooters, doesn't it? Ah well... fun to play in a thread before it gets slammed shut!

12-10-2003, 01:18 PM	#5
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Movies DEFINITELY better than a mini-series. For one, there's no way they could have recovered $300M with a mini-series, so we would have had low-budget effects, etc.

12-10-2003, 01:21 PM	#6
thranduil Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 345	I couldn't watch them all, I work every night. I wouldn't even know what you all were debating about. But low budget means less action, more story?